Jason Hartman welcomes client and venture Alliance member Elisabeth Embry. They talk about their new podcast, Women Investing Network, which focuses on unique opportunities for women investors from a woman’s point of view. They also discuss cash-on-cash return, loan to investment ratios, the Trump presidency’s tax plan, and the Seattle market.

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This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.

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Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the company cleat solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 1:04
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Welcome to the creating wealth Show Episode Number 820. Seven, eight to seven. Thank you so much for joining me today. This is your host, Jason Hartman. And I’ve got a returning guest with me today. And that is our client and venture Alliance member, Elizabeth. And maybe we’ll talk about a little client case study with her again, we did one on that before, but really, we want to talk about some other things, as well as the new podcast that Elizabeth is co hosting with me, Elizabeth, welcome back. How are you?

Elisabeth Embry 2:26
I’m terrific, Jason. Thank you.

Jason Hartman 2:28
Good. Good. It’s good to have you. So since I mentioned the new podcast, why don’t we just get that out of the way mentioned it now. And it’s all about the when right w i am what does that stand for?

Elisabeth Embry 2:40
It’s the women investing network and I couldn’t be more excited. We’re helping women win, in investing and in life. The types of guests that we have our focus on strengths and strategies around career corporate entrepreneur, business, family communication. health, wellness, longevity. There’s a wide variety of things. But also, there’s the element of real estate investing. That is the cornerstone of the show. And it’s turning out really well. I’m super excited about it.

Jason Hartman 3:13
Good stuff. Good to hear. And by the way, I didn’t mention you are coming to us today from beautiful Seattle on the Pacific Northwest. So I just want to make sure our listeners knew that

Elisabeth Embry 3:23
You say beautiful, but we’re going between we’re vacillating between downpours and sunny skies

Jason Hartman 3:28
So well, when it’s when it’s sunny. Seattle’s beautiful. Of course, you and your husband, Neal were kind enough to co host us when we brought the venture Alliance mastermind to Seattle. That was what three trips ago. They’re all running together. Now. We’ve done so many trips together

Elisabeth Embry 3:43
So much and there is so much fun. But you know, that trip was great because we really lucked out with kind of perfect skies and later September early.

Jason Hartman 3:52
Yeah. Yeah. Really nice. Good stuff. Well, good stuff. Well, hey, Elizabeth. We want to dive into a few topics today. You know that Last week, I discussed crap rate on the show. And, and it’s not really that bad, I just kind of thought of that off the top of my head there. And what I meant by that is not crap rate, but cap rate, okay? And how cap rate is not a very good metric. Again, it’s used a lot in commercial real estate. But it really shouldn’t be used in residential that much, because it doesn’t tell the whole story. And we want to know more, we want to tell a more complete story when we talk about real estate investing. And today, why don’t we talk a little bit about a better metric than crap rate or cap rate. And that is cash on cash return, although that doesn’t really tell the full story either. But I think it’s a little better than cap rate. But you know, talk to us about that if you would, because you’re you discussed this on the wind show. And so that’s why I wanted to bring it up.

Elisabeth Embry 4:53
Yeah, absolutely. It’s it’s interesting because everybody, every time I interact with a different provider, a different You know, Real Estate Group with different finance group, they always calculate everything differently. And so one of the things that I really like is in your property tracker tool, you’ve got the in the pro forma, you’ve got a very consistent way of showing the cash on cash return. And so for me cash on cash return is a great way of at a glance, determining if this is the good next potential investment for you. So it’s the cash on cash return is a calculation of all of your expenses and the generate the actual cash flow that you’re going to get and divide that by the initial years, all in monies. And so, so that includes not only the amount of money that you’re putting down, but the money that you’re that you’re using as your closing to get the total number. What is that the numerator or the denominator, the money, the number that you’re dividing, and then the cash flow that you’re getting? You need to be thinking about not only the the rent that you’re going to be getting, but you need to be thinking about your vacancy rate. You also need to be thinking about your your expenses, such as your property management expenses, and your maintenance fees and your insurance and your taxes. And that generates your all in operating. Profit net profit.

Jason Hartman 6:21
Okay, so here’s the thing about cash on cash return, if the property goes down in value, which I don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon, given the market conditions, they’re just nuts. But you know, hey, there are cycles, right? But again, we’re into the linear markets where you don’t have those big swings, but you do have a little minor swings, not versus the cyclical markets where they really do swing and it can get really ugly. So if the if the value of the property goes down, but you as the investor are able to maintain the same income and expense ratio, then your cash on cash return will be consistent. Okay, sometimes in a down market, the value can actually decline. But as I talked about in the three dimensions of real estate concept, which we’ve done on many other shows, the rents will actually increase because the people are not going, you know, motivated. The the renters are not motivated to jump into the housing market, when prices are going down, which actually, they ought to be contrarians. And that’s exactly what they probably should do at that time. Right, but they don’t. So you can actually see the rental market strengthen, as you see prices drop. So your cash on cash return could get better in a down market. And so could your cap rate basically, too, and that’s the interesting thing. It doesn’t include appreciation. Okay. And, but it does include leverage cap rate doesn’t include leverage, right? Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay. So what else do you what what metric Do you like to go by? And why?

Elisabeth Embry 8:02
Well, for me I like to look at, because I’m, I’m lucky enough, I guess that I that I no longer can get Fannie Mae loans. And so I’m having to do commercial lending. And so I’m just looking for what the actual percentage of cash flow that I’m going to be getting over my mortgage. So I don’t know what you would call that. But basically, what’s my net? What’s my net cash flow compared to the total price and so I don’t know if that’s a specific calculation, but I, but I have a literally a 46 column spreadsheet that I do to try to not only look at opportunities, but track how my properties are flowing. And, and so really, I’m looking for cash flow over total money outlay, but not in year one, I’m looking at the actuals that I’m getting after there’s a true pattern established. And so for me that first year, it’s anybody Guess it’s after really seeing how the the true track rate, if you will, of the properties are performing over years. And what I’m really surprised with is even though I’m buying in linear markets, Jason,

Jason Hartman 9:16
you know, the appreciation in linear markets use

Elisabeth Embry 9:19
linear market. there’s a there’s a, there’s a good deal of appreciation that I’ve been able to realize over the last, you know, just since 2012. That’s really when I started investing, I think, and the amount of appreciation that I’ve been able to see to see the true ROI is kind of exciting. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 9:38
yeah, it really is. It really is. Well, welcome to the most historically proven asset class in the entire world. And that’s income property, right. By the way, how many properties Do you have now, Elizabeth?

Elisabeth Embry 9:49
So we have 50. We’ve got another three coming online soon.

Jason Hartman 9:55
So you’ll be up to 53 right? That’s correct. That’s right. And actually, we should In the interest of full disclosure, we are on the verge of making you and a couple of other key people that some of our listeners know when they’ve heard on the show before shareholders in the company, minority shareholders. So I know you’re liquidating a couple of properties to do that deal, right?

Elisabeth Embry 10:15
That’s correct. That’s correct. And that’s what’s that. See, that’s what’s really cool about this portfolio is, even though I’ve only had it for a short period of time, and this is why I’m so intimately familiar with the amount of depreciation that’s that’s occurred, I can actually liquidate and even though you know, normally when you sell a property, oh, gosh, you know, I’m gonna have to pay closing costs, I’m having to pay, you know, back the tax some of the tax depreciation that I was able to write off before I’m having to, you know, pay fees to fix it up and even so, the portfolio is performed well enough that the for the properties that I’m selling, you know, I’m able to retain just a chunk of money beyond my initial investment. So I’m pretty excited about that. And I’m excited about the opportunity of, you know, becoming a shareholder in this company. It’s, you know, it’s obviously a great company I, I think quite highly of it. And it’s, it’s done well by me for sure.

Jason Hartman 11:11
Yeah, good, good stuff. Well, we appreciate your business and appreciate you being a client and appreciate you being a venture Alliance member, and the guest on the show today as well. So that was interesting about, about the cash on cash return, folks, I think that is a better metric than cap rate. But again, the metric I favor is just the overall return on investment. So I like looking at the rent to value ratio. That’s my quick rule of thumb, as I go in, you know, am I getting that 1% rent to value ratio, that I get it, okay, or somewhere in that neighborhood? That’s the first that’s the first cut. And then just looking as you look at Jason Hartman calm and you click on the property section, you can see those performances and the overall return on investment, the projected overall return on investment is in bold, because I think that is the most accurate thing. And as I mentioned on last week’s show, when I went off on my rant about crap rate, you know, I talked about how even that overall return on investment does not include some very significant benefits. So it’s really, potentially much higher than that. And what I said back then, just to refresh your memories, because it’s been a week, is I said that it doesn’t include the advantage of owning and rebalancing that portfolio over the course of your life. So that you can do a 1031 tax deferred exchange, and reinvest all of those dollars, not the post tax dollars, not paying Uncle Sam not paying the government first. You get to reinvest at all. You don’t get to do that with stocks, with businesses with bonds with anything else. It’s special in real estate or income property. Now, actually, I shouldn’t say you don’t get to do it with anything else. That’s actually not true. There are some 1031 exchange opportunities with things like air airplanes. But the problem is those actually really do depreciate your real estate, hopefully appreciate. So, you know, you have depreciation there and it’s real in the real estate, you know, it’s hopefully not real. And then also, I think you can do it with cattle and stuff like that, but I don’t own any cattle. So, you know, I don’t know about cows and stuff like that. So

Elisabeth Embry 13:27
that’s funny.

Jason Hartman 13:29
But anyway, that’s that. Okay, so let’s talk about a couple of other things. First of all, I wanted to ask you, Elizabeth, about just kind of generally, you know, and I gotta say this, I’m gonna put you on the spot a little bit here. When Trump won, you were bummed out. I mean, you were bumped. Elizabeth is like one of my liberal friends. Okay. And she she has said she’s given it up and now she’s a libertarian. So welcome to the Libertarian Party, Elizabeth.

Elisabeth Embry 13:55
Thank you, Jason. And thank you for putting me on the spot.

Jason Hartman 13:59
You didn’t know I was gonna bring this up did Yes. Okay, but but I wanted to ask you, because you know you were just like devastated when Trump won. I know you’re not a fan and I’m the jury’s out for me. Honestly, I know people probably think I’m a Trump fan, but that guy worries me. He’s reckless. Okay. Yeah, you know, he could start world war three on his frickin Twitter account. Okay. I don’t know about him.

Elisabeth Embry 14:22
Literally, literally.

Jason Hartman 14:24
Yeah, the jury is out on Trump. If you asked me, you know, whatever.

Elisabeth Embry 14:29
I’m slightly encouraged by the tax. Now. I haven’t seen any details yet. But, you know, the conversations around the tax laws that he’s talking about. They potentially could be really beneficial for

Jason Hartman 14:42
phenomenal if the tax rate for small companies goes from 39% to 15%. Oh my god. Do you know what’s gonna happen? It’s gonna be insane. You don’t be

Elisabeth Embry 15:00
But certainly companies can put more money into r&d, they can afford to hire more people and take bigger risks. And I think that that’s the bigger risk than the RND parts, I think are the most exciting for me, because that’s when we’re going to get true innovation starting to occur right now people are having to, you know, because they’re giving away 35 40% of their money to, you know, to taxes, right? So they have, they have to be really conservative about the decisions that they’re making, even for large corporations. But you know, you get 20% back and all of a sudden, now you have the money to really start expanding people, you know, on the more liberal side of things might be going, they’re just gonna, you know, stockpile all their profits. companies don’t actually work on just stockpiling profits, although Apple might be the exception to that, right. They’re seeing a lot of cash. But most companies actually need want and need to spend them the large portion of their monies. In r&d, so that they can determine what is going to be the next product that’s going to just really hit

Jason Hartman 16:07
mine that might change the world. Right, you know? Yeah, there’s no question that look, you know, it’s always a decision of you give it to the the entrepreneurs, the citizens, the people, or you give it to the government, and who do you think is going to manage that money better? Well, I think we all know, regardless of what side of the political aisle we’re on, you know, that individuals, individual people, and individual businesses are probably gonna manage it better. Not always. But you know, it’s I just don’t think, you know, sending that money to Washington DC is a very good way to go. And you know, people are saying, well with it with a Trump tax proposal, you know, it’s going to increase the deficit now. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t, maybe it will for a time and then it’ll change and of course, this is the old Laffer Curve supply side economics trickle down economics. reaganomics type discussion, right of, you know, increasing economic activity by lowering tax rates and look at even if it doesn’t, I mean, this may sound really irresponsible and kind of against my anti Keynesian philosophy. But you know what, even if we just run more deficits, it’s like we are so beyond the beyond already, with these with with deficits and debt in this country. As long as we can keep the biggest military in the world, the biggest brand, you know, and all the other advantages we have in the US. I think we’re gonna be fine. I mean, you know, it’s like, the question you always got to ask yourself is compared to what I mean, America, yeah, it’s all messed up and we’re running it into the ground but compared to what, it’s all just a game of relativity. It’s it’s not it. There’s no absolute in this. There’s only a comparison of here’s the US versus country. A B. See the and I think, you know, the US is going to keep its reserve currency status for a long, long time, and probably prosper for a long, long time. So I’m not that overly concerned about deficits. And I normally wouldn’t say that, but it’s only because we’re so beyond ridiculous already that there’s no way we can pay it back. We’re just gonna have to inflate our way out of it, you know, it’s the way it’s gonna be.

Elisabeth Embry 18:27
Well, I think the point that you’re bringing up is you’ve got to work within the process in order to change the process and then order for you to realize traction, if you will. And so taking advantage of real estate tax opportunities makes real estate the right income that drives the action for people to invest more in real estate, which then provides housing for you know, for a very large population, right.

Jason Hartman 18:53
Then that is why it is the sacred cow of the tax code. Yeah, people are worried that you know, Under every new administration, right, you know, well could they might want to say take this benefit away or that benefit away? I guarantee you Well, I can’t guarantee you this, but I bet you, I won’t guarantee you but I will bet you that even if they take one, perk away in real estate tax code, they will add another and you know, say for example, 1031 exchange goes away. Okay, well, there will be an adjustment in the market for that, right? Everything equalizes. It does take a few years for to happen, though. That’s the part that kills people. But I bet they’ll give us something else. I mean, look, if they took the 1031 tax deferred exchange away and lowered the mortgage interest deduction for homeowners. Hey, I would love it, Elizabeth, if they would take away the mortgage deduction for homeowners, because that would make them all much more likely to rent. And guess what? I’m a landlord. So that’s fine with me. You see, things always equalize. Right?

Elisabeth Embry 19:58
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Jason Hartman 20:01
So but what is your The thing I was I was bugging you about, like being bummed out about the Trump win. But what is your sentiment? Now, if I can ask you because, you know, you were pretty, like gloomy there for a couple of months, I

Elisabeth Embry 20:16
would actually say was going through a true depression, much like massage, much like country, and not necessarily like you like many of your closest friends. Right? I realize you have a lot, a lot of friends on both sides of the aisle. So that’s not necessarily a fair statement. But, you know, there was the fear of the Elisabeth Embry, right, there was a lot of the fear of the Elisabeth Embry and quite frankly, the rhetoric that that Trump and to a lesser degree Pence, you know, spewed during our sorry, communicated during the campaign.

Jason Hartman 20:51
Spirit is okay. You know,

Elisabeth Embry 20:52
honestly, it was is really scary. And I think that everything is Trump. I don’t know what the quote was the other day. was something like, I didn’t realize it was gonna be this hard.

Jason Hartman 21:04
Right? Right. He’s getting here you’ve got the guy with possibly the biggest ego on the planet, right? Donald Trump. And you know, he’s kind of getting a little humble. I think this was good for him. Yeah.

Elisabeth Embry 21:17
And you know, honestly with Kellyanne Conway and and once the Nazi guy O’Bannon

Elisabeth Embry 21:28
Stepping away

Jason Hartman 21:30
Oh my god people you heard that Nazi guy. Yeah.

Elisabeth Embry 21:37
I The thing is what I’m really what I believe is Trump is realizing that the job is a lot harder than he thought, even if with the whole, you know, a house and senate on his side in theory. You know, he is realizing that politics are a little more challenging than he expected them to be. I think that he’s still trying to drive forward his promises. And for me, I’m not seeing a whole lot of traction on the good ones or the bad ones. I’m honestly hopeful about the tax promise, but the rest of them about, you know, put up a wall immediately. There’s these all of these

Elisabeth Embry 22:18
these lawsuits that are getting thrown up and I find it

Jason Hartman 22:21
this is the thing, folks, isn’t it? Great. I mean, you know, a couple great things about it. Elizabeth, this is a bit of a tangent. So please hold your thought there. Remember, we were going to say, but you know, the first thing and I said this at the meet the Masters event, of course, you were there. Yeah. That was what I started with is is so inspiring, really to see, regardless of your political spectrum and your beliefs, to see Trump and Obama walking together, you know, during the inauguration and, you know, Trump waving Obama off in the helicopter and so forth. I mean, the orderly transfer of power you we should all be so grateful that we you know, it We live in a western country, right where you have that you should all be so grateful that there’s no military coup there. No, there’s no bloodshed. You know, it’s all just, that’s just so impressive. And then the other part of it is that, you know, even with Trump’s rhetoric and all this stuff that you didn’t like, okay, and many people didn’t like about half the country, it’s about equal. About half the country hated them, half the country loved them, or at least liked him enough to vote for him. You know, he can’t get he can’t he’s not a dictator. Okay. You know, we’ve got three branches of government, we’ve got all kinds of people people have to be accountable to you can’t just do what he wants, which is good. Yeah.

Elisabeth Embry 23:40
Yeah. You know, I was surprised at how quickly they they pulled out the VP breaking the ties and, you know, the nuclear option when it came to the Supreme Court. But even so, things are moving a lot slower than he’d expected, which gives me hope, and the reason why gives me hope says it’s giving him time to reflect and really understand. So yes, people wanted to vote an outsider and they wanted to change the system, but you have to understand the system enough in order to change it. And so now he’s getting some, you know, some learnings, you know, some opportunity to figure it out. Hopefully he’ll be, you know, smarter, wiser through the end, like, let’s face it, the guy’s a great business person, like no matter how much support how many people have really authored, you know, or been the ghostwriter for, you know, his books or what have you. He’s been smart enough to get this far in business at this point. And so I’m sure he’s gonna have to, he realizes he’s got to adjust change that political leaders are different than business leaders. And so I’m encouraged and like you said, the system is there to

Jason Hartman 24:53
honestly just to keep him in check. You can just do what he wants

Elisabeth Embry 24:55
to keep status quo to right so the rule of eminence domain, you know, where people want to bust up the land between Mexico and Texas or Mexico and California, what have you, you know, all those land owners are immediately throwing up red flags and saying Absolutely not. Right. And so it’s a very long legal process, you know that we’re going to be speaking about 25 years from now, but right that

Jason Hartman 25:24
possibly, possibly. Yeah. Interesting stuff. Interesting stuff. Okay. So that’s just an interesting whole thing about that the Trump perspective, but what I mean, are you optimistic now? I mean, do you see that, like the real estate market, the economy, they’re just booming. I mean, it’s insane. What’s going on? Like, I’m just super optimistic about the Trump economy. I know not

Elisabeth Embry 25:49
a counterpoint. I’m very optimistic that the that the positive direction that Obama

Jason Hartman 25:58
Obama credit

Elisabeth Embry 26:00
Continuing. But I mean, let’s face it, Seattle has been on a massive upswing even in 2008, where we had a sharp decline from the housing market. Right. It’s it’s started to push again through the roof and it’s gone well past its 2008 norms in the housing markets. I think that there’s the last report, I thought there was 60 major cranes, you know, like, like large scale development cranes employed in the us right now. 32 of them are in the Seattle area. Wow. I know. It’s not crazy. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 26:32
So whenever you whenever you go to a place where the national bird is a crane, okay. That is the sign that a bubble is coming. I don’t know exactly when it’ll be there. But, you know, it’s just there’s like too much development, right, there’s just this overbuilding and you just know it all. It always goes in that cycle. So you are probably selling your personal residence at the right time in Seattle, or, I don’t know maybe it’ll be a year or two early but it would be to say at some level You know that bubble is there, right?

Elisabeth Embry 27:01
Oh, absolutely. I mean, for me, I’m I’m fiscally conservative, and now’s the right time a, I’ve seen the 10 year cycles, you know, time and time again, having worked in, you know, in banking at Washington Mutual before the, you know, the spike in the boom and the bust. And you know, having been in the Seattle area since the late 80s. And it’s coming in now. How is that gonna play out on what the rest of the rest of the nation? I don’t know. It’s something interesting. Part of the reason why the Seattle market is so pushed up, is because the Chinese investor is getting pushed out of out of Canada, they’re getting an increased tax.

Jason Hartman 27:48
Vancouver, Vancouver was a big a big Chinese market, but what’s going on with the increased tax? We’re going to say there,

Elisabeth Embry 27:55
oh, yeah. So um, so in Canada They’re there they agreed to implement or they’re talking about implementing an additional 15% tax for out of country investors in like Vancouver and Victoria, which means that that Chinese investor will really shift even more so from that expensive market where they’re all there. They’re taking massive hits from their profit and deploying that more into the US.

Jason Hartman 28:27
Yeah, that’s gonna cause a money flight out of Canada. No question about that.

Elisabeth Embry 28:32
Well, and this is why people ask me, Well, why don’t I invest locally? Why am I not a local landlord. And the reality is, my cash flow is so much higher my exposure is so much lower on when I invest in these linear markets, you know, through companies like you right, where I’m getting a great, a great portfolio of opportunities at a great price. And again, using the 1% rental value Looking at the cash on cash, but really calculating the overarching ROI, and for me also looking at the cash flow after all expenses to make sure that I can make a living. And I so it’s good.

Jason Hartman 29:11
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, when I talk about the risk evaluator model, which by the way, you know, that’s always something good to review, go to Jason hartman.com. and type in Hartman risk evaluator, and listen to some of the podcasts I’ve done on that topic, but it’s just amazing how much lower the risk is, when you buy in these linear markets that are the you know, the cash flow oriented low land value, you know, in other words, they have good LTI or land to improvement ratios. Again, when you buy a property, two major components, one is the land, the other is the improvement or the house or the apartment building sitting on the land right. So LTI, meaning land to improvement ratio, I coined that term. Kind of dovetailing on the concept of LTV, loan to value ratio. that most people have heard of. And it’s amazing. If you look at like your place in Seattle, your personal residence, by the way, do you know offhand? Or can you just calculate it real quickly? While I’m yapping? What the cost per square foot is at your lowest price, Elizabeth?

Elisabeth Embry 30:15
Sure. Oh, yeah, I’ll calculate it because I don’t know. I mean, we’re not some of the market yet. So it’s not that

Jason Hartman 30:23
I know but just at the price, you’re going to list it out. And and so you really see that your risk is so much lower investing in these good solid linear markets we recommend and you can see all those markets at Jason hartman.com. Click on properties. And you’ll see the eight or so markets that we’re mostly active in. We do have some other markets we do a little bit of business and but those I think eight or nine that you see there are the most active right now. And it’s really hard to lose your shirt in those markets. If if the trend reverses and things go the other way. Two reasons, you know, this is all about sustainable investing, not just one reason, but two reasons. The first one being the LTI ratio being very favorable land to improvement ratio, when that construction cost is high as a ratio to the land value that puts a floor on any potential losses. It’s like a stop loss, if you will, right in the stock market, a stop loss. And then the other part of it is that the cash flow is so good, that you know, even if the property goes down in value, you know, you can just maintain it, you can you’re never in a position, hopefully, where you’re ever forced to sell a property at the wrong time. That’s what sustainable investing is all about my philosophy of sustainable investing. Never be forced to sell a property at an inopportune time. Did you have that square footage

Elisabeth Embry 31:56
depending on how we price it between probably like two 65 to 300

Jason Hartman 32:02
Yeah, per square foot. Okay, so your house to rebuild your house now it would be more expensive in Seattle, I would venture to guess that the cost of construction to rebuild your house would be somewhere around $125 a foot in Seattle. So you can see that you’ve got a lot of land value in that property. Okay. Yeah. You’re saying that is not a good market to be in? Well,

Elisabeth Embry 32:25
quite frankly, the market is appreciating 1% per month. That’s insane.

Elisabeth Embry 32:31
And so I’m calculating now my, one of my Memphis properties.

Jason Hartman 32:35
So you’ve got properties in Memphis, Indianapolis. I think you have Atlanta

Elisabeth Embry 32:39
to $60 $62

Jason Hartman 32:43
Isn’t that incredible? Yeah, surprise. Memphis.

Elisabeth Embry 32:48
Yeah, Memphis property. And again, it’s the replacement property that we’re paste. The replacement cost of materials is pretty static. It’s the labor that really, I think drives A lot of fluctuation Okay, so

Jason Hartman 33:02
so you’ve got the Seattle property at $300 a square foot, you’ve got the Memphis property at $62 per square foot. If that Memphis property burnt down today, it would probably cost you 75 or $80 per square foot to rebuild it, okay? If the Seattle property burned down, it costs you $125 to rebuild it, but you’d have or you know, somewhere in that ballpark, but you’d have an expensive lot And yeah, it folks this philosophy makes sense invest in these boring linear markets that you don’t hear about on the news you know, all the all the markets at Jason Hartman calm slash properties, and you’re just much less volatility, much better cash flow, and you can diversify geographically be in several markets. So Elizabeth, I think you and Neil are making a good decision selling your house. I hope it doesn’t double in value after you sell it. Otherwise, you’re gonna then you’re gonna think No, that wasn’t so good, but Well,

Elisabeth Embry 33:59
honestly. We can look at my the price of my Amazon stock after I sold it, which is now I think at almost $1,000 a share.

Jason Hartman 34:08
So, you know, I used to work at Amazon, by the way. Yes, absolutely

Elisabeth Embry 34:11
work there for four years and I work there. relatively early in the company’s history. They worked there for four years. I,

Jason Hartman 34:20
what was your position at Amazon, by the way?

Elisabeth Embry 34:23
Oh, so I was a senior manager for product and program management. So I worked in two different groups. And so I had a team of Gosh, I don’t know like 20 ish people. And I my first position I was in the ordering, flow, or manage all of the programs. So basically, the whole of the Amazon e commerce engine sat on the work that my team did for everything. And the second decision I had was it was in a product line and it was It was a fascinating role that I learned a lot but it’s

Elisabeth Embry 35:05
the role today I think would be equivalent of a director at most companies.

Jason Hartman 35:10
Good stuff. Good stuff. Yeah. So just wanted to kind of I mean, your your backgrounds in tech and software and project management and you had a big team at T Mobile that you manage. What a couple hundred people or something.

Elisabeth Embry 35:21
Yeah, yeah, about 200 people and you know, it was funny because I think a stress was the same. They were very different types of stresses. You know, their products were, were really exciting. And Amazon a, I really enjoyed that time.

Jason Hartman 35:37
Good stuff. Well, hey, Elizabeth, we’ve got to wrap it up. But thank you for joining us today. And the women investing network podcast is out there so you can find it on iTunes or any podcast platform, just newly launched please go listen, rate review, subscribe to that show, and of course to this show as well and we will talk to you on the Next episode.

Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website heart and Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

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