Jason Hartman starts the show discussing the lack of affordable housing. Supply continues to drop across the nation. Jason gives his advice on how to profit from this. In the interview segment, Jason continues a two-part interview with Scott. Scott gives us insight into how Jason’s network helped him complete his 1031 exchange. He also tells us about the difference in self-management in office space versus residential.
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 0:52
Welcome listeners from around the world. Thank you so much for joining me on a windy day from the Windy City. Do you know what the Windy City is? While most people think it’s Chicago, I disagree. I think it’s Las Vegas. It is windy today. Beautiful clear. Not too cold or cool. It’s a little bit cool just ever so slightly cool I should say it’s in the 60s. And it’s gorgeous out but it is windy. Las Vegas is the Windy City. I’m telling you. We are going to have 30 mile an hour winds today. So I Love it. Love it. Love it. Love weather phenomena. I think it’s super interesting when when the weather changes. I love it when God puts on a show. And he does that with whether he or she sorry, I don’t want to offend any anybody. So there we go. We have got part two of our interview with Scott and Kelly today hearing about their client case study going from shopping centers to single family homes, lots and lots of them using the 1031 tax deferred exchange. Income property is the most tax favored asset plants in America, and the most historically proven asset class in the entire world. But before we do that, you know, I’ve talked a lot about the inventory shortage, the lack of supply in the marketplace. We’ve talked about absorption rates. We’ve talked about, hey, why aren’t there enough properties in which to invest? You know, why was the supply so limited? Well, that may seem obvious. And I’ve talked about many factors that are influencing that. But one of them was given a name by none other than one of our meet the masters of income property speakers, and one of our multi time guests on the show, and that is a real estate market researcher john burns. He calls it the barbell, the barbell that is crushing the supply of affordable homes. And so, a barbell as the name would imply, has weights on either end right waiting the bar and of course You’re gonna benchpress this barbell or whatever and the weight is on both sides of the barbell. Otherwise, it would just be a dumbbell. Well, no, it’s actually on two sides of a dumbbell too, but you get the idea. I’m not gonna go into trying to explain this anymore. The barbell of housing demand, and I’ve talked about this a little bit before, but this article with some statistics, I think will help you really see how formidable This is. And then I will attempt to provide a solution for you before we get to part two of our case study today. So first off, we’ve got the millennials. Now the millennials, we talk a lot about these millennials, this generation, I tell you, they were the most coddled waited on catered to generation in world history, right. We all know about the millennials, Gen Y. We’ve talked about them a million times, you’re probably sick of hearing about them. I’m getting a little sick of it too, but Anyway, they are finally moving in to the housing market. Yes, they are. The oldest millennial today is what that would make them about 35 years old or so. This is the generation right after yours truly a Gen X or myself. And then I followed my generation followed the baby boomer generation, and before them was the mature generation, okay, what’s sometimes known as the greatest generation, right? And so, here we have these millennials. Now, they are not moving into the housing market in any great compared to what percentage, right? Because you’ve got their entire demographic cohort, about 80 million strong, slightly bigger than the baby boomers at about 76 million. I know these numbers vary because they’re kind of guesses, you know, demographers will fudge around the edges. They’ll say that well, you know, if you’re a Gen X, or you’re really this Hear that you’re in terms of birthdate, if you’re a millennial, you’re really this year to that year. And there’s a little bit of disagreement here. There’s a little bit of disagreement as to the size. And hey, we’ve got all this on documented workers, or as Hillary Clinton calls them workers without papers. And you know, we don’t exactly know how many people we have in the country, right, or how many aren’t in each demographic cohort. But we do have a decent idea. So that’s the number we’re going with. We’re going with 76 million baby boomers, we’ve got about 40 million give or take Gen Xers and we got about 80 million millennials or Gen wires, and then we’ve got Generation Z, hey, in a few years, we’re going to be talking about Generation Z and then you’re going to be sick of hearing about them too. But by then you’ll be so rich from all your real estate investing that hey, you won’t even care. Okay, so we’ve caught the millennials now compared to what is always the question to ask, see, they are moving into the housing market, but not in a big way as a compared to what percentage of their overall cohort. But their demographic cord is so large, it’s massive, it’s 80 million people that even if a fairly small percentage moves into the house buying market, now, most of them are renters, or a lot of them are representing the shadow inventory. They are the live at home or they’re living in mom’s house live in a dad’s house. Hey, hopefully mom and dad are actually married, if anybody actually does that anymore. I know it’s not so popular as it used to be on. And I say that’s unfortunate, by the way, but whatever. Let’s not go into that rabbit hole and talk about how the birth rate has been destroyed. And the traditional nuclear family has been destroyed and the culture war goes on. right but that’s another subject So they are moving into the market a little bit, but their numbers are so large that it matters, right? So they’re finally doing family formation. They’re buying houses to live in. Okay. But then at the other end of the spectrum, you’ve got the baby boomers. They’re the other side of the barbell, and they’re moving down. And interestingly, and this is a new trend, and it’s one that I’ve talked about, and I believe john actually talked about it at meet the Masters during his speech. It is that these baby boomers, oddly, are renting, a lot of them are renting, but some are renting and they’re just taking advantage of the appreciation built up in their homes after the last several years, and they’re cashing out and they’re moving to their empty nest home. So with the two sides of this barbell, the millennials at one end, the move down baby boomers at the other end, or even the matures, Moving down, right? They are creating a huge demand on an already small supply of entry level housing, or lower price tier housing. Now, an interesting chart here. This is a chart that burns company put out, and this database on 31 markets, interestingly, and I’m not sure why he did this. But there’s always these interesting ways to slice and dice statistics. And this is why you gotta be careful. You can’t just look at data, you’ve got to, you’ve got to use some, some reasoning with the data. All right, that’s what the brilliant human mind was built to do is reason and isn’t it scary, that we have so few people that are willing to do it anymore? If you’ve had a debate about virtually anything on social media, you know, that critical thinking is all but extinct, right? Isn’t that scary? Well, another rabbit hole We could go down but we won’t. So you’re over your change. This chart I’m looking at shows the rapid, insane decrease in low price tier listings on the market. Okay. Now, he doesn’t define low priced here. So I’m going to make the assumption that he’s doing this based on the market, but you know, in relationship to that market. So the first stat is the Bay Area of California, you know, that Silicon Valley and by the way, we’re having an event and Silicon Valley coming up San Jose, March 3, Jason Hartman university.com We look forward to seeing you there tickets have been selling briskly for that event. March 3, Jason Hartman university.com in San Jose Silicon Valley event that’s a full day. It’s a full all day Saturday event. So come to that. Join us. Jason Hartman University comm for details and tickets, so in the Bay Area, low priced here listings are down year over year by 48%. Wow, that is scary bad in terms of lack of inventory in Denver, a market we used to recommend until it got too expensive. But hey, a lot of you listening bought properties from us in Denver years ago, and you made a fortune. Congratulations. I appreciate you. I don’t know if you can hear that. But you were just patting me on the back for helping you do it. Well, thank you very much. So Denver, they are down. 44% Raleigh Durham. Hey, another market we used to recommend. Don’t have inventory there now but many of you purchase from us in the Raleigh Durham area, the tech triangle at the other end of the country 35% decline. Seattle 34% decline we’ve never recommend Seattle’s always been too expensive. Orlando many of you were at our Orlando property tour a few years ago. You bought tons of properties from us in Orlando or the greater Orlando area and low priced listings in Orlando. by many considered to be one of the ground zero locations for foreclosure activity by the way, down 32% from one year ago, Minneapolis down 31% los angeles down 29% san diego down 24% Orange County, my former hometown along with Los Angeles and San Diego I’ve lived in all three of those places down 24%. Jacksonville, a market we’re currently active in in recommending but are suffering from an extreme lack of inventory. Down 24% low priced here listings from one year ago. Phoenix 23% down Charlotte down. We’ve had hundreds of you have purchased from us in Charlotte Down 23% Tampa. Down 22% Portland down 20% Riverside San Bernardino, down 18% in Atlanta, hundreds of you have purchase from us in Atlanta. Down 16%. Philadelphia down 15% Chicago land area down 10%. Washington DC down 9% New York. Really? Is there such a thing as a low price to your listing in New York, down 9% and Boston down 7% Miami down six, Dallas down 2%. Hey, you know the only market out of this survey that actually has a slight increase in low price tier listings. I wonder if you can guess I couldn’t have guessed. It’s Sacramento, California, where my aunt Joan, who was one of our speakers and who’s been on the show. One of our meet the master speakers where she owns about 100 properties give or take in Sacramento area. So actually a very slight increase in low price tier listings in that market. So I just thought that’s interesting. Now, what is the prescription from yours truly your ROI director, Jason Hartman, what would he recommend you do? What would his solution to this be? Well, he doesn’t have a solution. Sorry about that, hey, I can’t solve all your problems. I try. I really try to solve all your problems, but I can’t solve them all. My solution is, don’t wait to buy real estate, buy real estate and then wait, get what you can get. Get while the getting is good. Inventory will probably increase a little bit as we see interest rates go up or at least, that’s my hope. I really do hope the market calms down a little bit. And I also hope I don’t regret saying that business has been fantabulous The last several years I mean, really? Well, I don’t know, really the last eight years, it’s been fantastic. But I gotta tell you, it’s hard to operate in a low inventory market. So we would like to see inventory increase a little bit, so that you would not be so disappointed when you can’t buy enough properties because we know you want to buy more. And look what will happen when inventory increases, prices will probably soften that upward trajectory and price will probably calm down. Hey, that would be fine with me, because I’m not a capital gains investor anyway, if it comes, I can spend it just as well as the next guy. But really, we invest for yield, and at the same time we see prices either stop increasing so much, or even soften a little bit. It would be a welcome change in my opinion, we will see upward pressure on rents and that’s really What were in the game for yield, increasing rents, cash flow fine with me fine with me. So that is my thought that is my prescription for you get as much as you can lock in these low rates while they last, they are going away, that ship is pulling out of port. So catch it while you can, as the ship is pulling out a port as the train is leaving the station, whatever metaphor you want to use, okay? Just buy your properties, buy good properties that makes sense the day you buy them, go and find those properties at Jason hartman.com. Click on the properties section, and we’ve got properties for you there. And our investment counselors will diligently help you find good properties. So join us March 3 in San Jose, come and meet some of our clients. We’re going to have one of our lenders there to talk to you about financing. We’re going to have at least one maybe two of our local market specialists there to talk to you about properties and their management processes in team, and you can meet them in person. So it’s a great opportunity coming out to San Jose March 3. Jason Hartman university.com of course, we’ve got our Icehotel trip coming up. If you want a bucket list experience, talk to us about that as well. You can reach us through any of our websites, including Jason Hartman calm and let’s get to part two and hear more about Scott and Kelly from Washington DC and their case study on why they moved from commercial properties to residential properties for their investing portfolio. Here you go. That’s why I created this business is because I tried to do it myself also told the story you may have heard it but I’ll just recap a really quick In 2004, I was in negotiations to sell my traditional real estate company in Irvine, California to Coldwell Banker. I knew I was going to have a big check from the sale I was thinking well you know, I’ll just retire and do rental properties and not have another business you know, at least not for a while just take a few years off or something you know, I’m not the kind of person that is very interested in taking time off, but I figured I’d find something right you know, certainly didn’t need to work but I wanted to buy more properties and build my portfolio and I wanted to do it nationwide because I’d been through a couple cycles in California they were pretty severe. I thought you know, now I’m older wiser more conservative, I don’t want to do that again. I want to invest in diversify nationwide and I was researching all these markets Scott and I was like, reading like the best places to live in America books and you know the places rated Almanac and, and then I would go online, I would just spend hours I was, you know, like trying to digest data on the US Census website, which is nearly impossible, by the way, there’s just too much there. You know, I was just trying to figure this out, you know, what are the hot places to invest? And I’d seen it before. You know, I remember when there was the big downturn in Southern California in the 90s. I saw my clients just like abandon their houses. It was amazing. And I remember I had all these vacant properties listed when I was a traditional real estate agent for for REMAX. You know, I’d saw them go to Arizona, Texas, Colorado, Georgia, you know, like places it seemed like there was a commonality of like these few sort of states and cities they were all moving to right because that’s where the opportunities were. And I thought, you know, when one market is down, another market is up because all those people are leaving and bringing their money there right. And that’s where the jobs are going the employers do it and and so forth. And I thought this is this is why you got to diversify. You know, you got to invest with nationwide. And then I tried to actually do it myself. I just flew. You know, after doing all this research, I flew to these different markets. And I mean, it was terrible. Honestly, I couldn’t find anyone to help me anyone that knew what they were doing, you know, these real estate agents I was talking to, they just, they didn’t know anything and much less. They didn’t know anything about investing, right? Like, it’s like when I was in Austin recently, and this agent was trying to tell me about the cap rates on these multimillion dollar houses. I was looking at one for rent, it was 7500 a month. And, you know, I asked her what the value of the house was. And she said, Well, this one’s worth about $4 million. And I thought that’s pretty good deal for that for 7500. Which you can do you know, and I was thinking of renting this house, myself when I when I was there a couple months ago. And she started explaining to me about the cap rates. She had no idea Scott how to calculate a cap rate. I mean, it’s just it’s just mind boggling. It really is. And then I think Well, I’m gonna be relegated to just putting my big check from the sale of the company into you know, the stock market. And so I went met with all like concurrently I went and met with all the, you know, financial advisors in the private client group, you know, for the people that have a few bucks at Merrill Lynch, Ameriprise, Charles Schwab, etc. They didn’t know anything, either. I mean, they just said the same thing. It was like the same speech. It was the same pie charts. And none of them were wealthy. You know, like, they were just talking to wealthy people all day, but they weren’t, you know, they weren’t wealthy. And I thought this isn’t the way to go. I love real estate. Why am I even here? You know? You know, I just thought there’s got to be other people that want to do what I want to do. And sure enough, there you are. There’s a lot of people like you.
Yeah, yeah. And it creates great value for people like me. I’m very appreciative that I even have the opportunity to do this. My father was invested in real estate starting back in the 80s and And he never was really able to make it work in residential, just a hard way to earn income.
Jason Hartma 21:06
He was in commercial real estate then right?
He went into commercial, he went into warehouses and other stuff,
Jason Hartman 21:11
okay, like industrial type properties. But he tried it in residential. And he said he was never able to make it work, right?
No, he was never able to make it work
Jason Hartman 21:19
told us what do you mean by that
he had a hard time identifying properties to begin with. This was before the internet, he had a hard time with knowing what to charge for rent, it cost them in a lot of fees just to get a standard lease together. And then he didn’t have a good way to check people’s credit. And so he ended up leasing to people who didn’t have very good credit. And they were actually pretty good at using the court system. So when he tried to get them evicted, they knew that they couldn’t be evicted, at least in the state of Maryland. They couldn’t be there during the winter months. They could just quit paying the rent in October. And by the time you get them into court, it’s already December. Yeah. And the judge will say Well, I’m not gonna throw a fan. out in the cold right let’s talk again in April right around Christmas.
Jason Hartman 22:03
Oh my god.
guys just got over November. Just think it’s seven months of free rent. Yeah, yeah. And guess what the next year they can do it too.
Jason Hartman 22:13
Yeah, yeah, they know how to play the game in any of these liberal, you know jurisdictions you don’t want to be a landlord folks that are just not landlord friendly. We have a client years ago I remember he used to get up at our meetings, he did it a few times. And he talked about how he owned a property in Washington DC, you know, had rented it out, and then the people wouldn’t pay and he tried to evict them and there was this rule, this law that you can’t evict someone whenever there’s more than like a certain percentage chance of rain or snow. And that is like, every day practically, you know, you’d and you’d have to pay and schedule the sheriff each time to go and do the eviction. And it just got postponed and postponed and they just Capital isn’t there for free. It was unbelievable. You know? Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, that’s how it is out here. That doesn’t work. Yeah, that doesn’t work.
And you get through your company, I’m able to go out and purchase, you know, 12 homes in Memphis over just a few days or every few months. And most of them I’ve never even seen and they’re able to cash flow. Well, the checks just arrive and I speak to the property managers if I want to, but most of the time, I don’t. Right. It just works out. It’s amazing. I’m glad you’re amazed and happy with your
Jason Hartman 23:30
experience. Tell us about property management. You know, the experiences with property managers are most certainly mixed. Okay. You know, some are good, some are bad. It depends on the manager that also depends on the circumstances. luck, I think plays a part in everything in life. What are your experiences with our property managers and, you know, do you have any tips for the listeners?
I’ve had a lot of experience. in Memphis alone. I’ve worked with four different property management companies. I will say that some provide are better providing homes and some providers have a better property management. When you’re considering a purchase, you want to look at the home itself and make sure it’s a wise decision. And you can always change management down the line. We have found a property manager that we prefer in Memphis, mainly because they keep in touch with us a lot and let us know what’s going on. Other ones just didn’t respond much by the phone or the checks, rent checks would arrive late. In some cases, you know, the rent checks were missed for an entire month and we had to go back and forth for months to find out what happened. That’s no good. We have a property manager were you given the perspectives on the property when we purchased it, there was a high rent and a low rent and after purchase, they wound up renting it out at the low rents, which was a little bit disappointing, but they also leased it out for two years. Well, when that lease was over, we asked them to please raise the rent. And that’s not what happened instead, they leased it out for another two years. Still. At that low rent,
Jason Hartman 25:01
so they just ignored your instructions.
They completely ignored our instructions.
Jason Hartman 25:05
Yes. lievable. Unbelievable. Yeah,
yeah, that particular property is coming up in September for a renewal. And so we’re trying to get on top of it. We’re seven months early here, notifying them and saying, Hey, we really need to bring this up on rent. You know, according to the websites, it should be rented for about 1550 a month, but it’s being rented out for 1295. So that’s about $250 a month that we’re missing out on. We’d like it the rent to be raised quite significantly. Well, we just sent back a reply. It’s just a form reply that we’ve seen many times. Now, unfortunately, that said that they’ll try to get the rent raised by 75 bucks, but they might only be able to get 50. And if the tenant refuses, maybe they won’t be able to get that at all. Well, I don’t know. Jason, do you think I should change to another property manager?
Jason Hartman 25:54
Yeah, I think so. That sounds like it. The interesting thing is though, you know, in I complained A lot about property managers and local market specialists when they’re not doing their job. I mean, Scott, you’ve heard me on the show, and boy, I got an episode coming up for you, too, that we’ve recorded with another covers. What’s interesting, you know that you always have to keep in perspective, and I think you’re pretty good at doing this. Even though you may have a bunch of complaints, and you have things go wrong, the investment can actually still be a pretty darn good deal at the end of the day cannot.
Absolutely, yeah. You know, there’ll be some good surprises, and there’ll be some bad surprises. But once you have a few investments, they tend to even out they tend to do pretty good. On average. Yeah, if you see chronic problems like repairs or just recurring and at high expense, then it might be time to switch property management. But if one isolated incident happens, you know, I would try to work it out before I’d switch it up.
Jason Hartman 26:55
Now make sense? make sense. Tell us about like your overall portfolio and how That’s working out, you know, do you have any metrics you want to share or anything like that?
Well, we really set out to get an 8% cap return
Jason Hartman 27:08
on our portfolio Spoken like a true commercial real estate guy. cap rate.
We’re trying to replace a certain investment with another investment is impeccable cap rate or better cap rate. Our target was 8%. And it’s been performing at almost precisely 8%. But once you take financing into account it does a little better than 9%. So we get very good returns on our investments ends very regular. We don’t really worry about how much money we’re gonna make this month. We know that it’s gonna be pretty good.
Jason Hartman 27:41
Yeah, yeah, good stuff. Good stuff. Have you considered self management?
That’s what I’m trying to get away from. Right, right.
Jason Hartman 27:49
Well, no, that’s that’s why I asked you that because you self manage the shopping centers. But you know, I tell you, I have rented I think seven commercial properties. As a tenant, you know, for my real estate offices in Orange County, and man, you know, that is just a high maintenance deal in terms of the management. In many of my properties, I would see or communicate with the management every business day. I mean, that’s far different than, like now, for example, I mean, I’ve you know, I own lots of investment properties, but I rent the high rise condo in which I live, and I hardly ever communicate with my landlord. He self manages it, we’d all send him an email every three months, maybe. I mean, there’s almost no communication between us. So self management in residential is a lot different than with a shopping center.
Don’t you agree? You know, I don’t know with office space, it tends to be very management intensive. Yeah, I agree with the retail shopping center, not so much. A shop owner just wants to be able to be open and be in business and they don’t want to see their toilets. Their interior is all owned by them. They manage the maintenance of the windows and doors and They pay their own utilities. So it’s really not that bad. The problems can be, you know, on the outside of the building, if someone comes and dumps a pile of debris in the parking lot, that can be an issue. I personally have security issues at the shopping center. And so I actually go there personally to deal with that at all hours of the night.
Jason Hartman 29:20
Wow, I can see why you don’t manage if that’s your background.
Well, part of what I’m trying to do here is get away from a workplace situation where I have to answer the phone when it rings. Okay. I would rather detach, fair enough, I totally understand. So, any tips on managing your managers that you want to share with listeners?
Basically, you have to remain active and remain interested. You don’t have to be going crazy over it all the time. You don’t have to worry about it. But do read the emails. do read the reports when they come in? If you have questions, call and ask and get answers. You may want to keep track of where repair are happening a lot, because often, you will find that the same thing will get repaired over and over. And that’s something that as an owner, you can identify and make sure the property manager becomes aware of. So that next time the repair happens, it’s, you know, final. Or maybe you can get reimbursed for some of those repairs, if they weren’t, in fact, successful repairs, right? And just pay attention. There’s some signs of bad management, if your rent check doesn’t show up. If the reports don’t show up. I would be concerned and I would take action on that. Call them up and find out what’s going on. reacted, yeah, but you don’t have to sweat it. Right. You don’t have to be fearful as long as things are going well, you know, do something else with your time. Yeah, right. I agree. I agree.
Jason Hartman 30:43
What are you doing with your time other than other than your properties or, you know, I mean, you’ve still in the shopping center business, obviously. So you’re you’ve got to do that reactive. And then you know, you’ve got to do some management of your managers on your single family home portfolio, but just out of curiosity, What else are you doing? enjoying life?
I am enjoying life. Yeah, just so happens that Valentine’s Day is tomorrow and my wife and I are gonna fly to Cancun and take some time off. Uh huh. Yeah. Awesome. But other than that, you know, I’m on a quest for the best real estate investment I can find right now. I’m just looking at all different opportunities, all different styles of investing. And the worst thing about is I keep finding great investments.
So it’s so good right
Jason Hartman 31:30
now. It keeps you tempted when you keep finding these great deals, you can’t refuse. Good stuff, good
stuff. I want to try to find the best opportunity. But you know, there’s so many good ones that come up. I just I want to get them all. Yeah. It’s like being a kid in a candy store. I totally get it. I totally get it. I feel the same way. A lot of times. totally understand.
Jason Hartman 31:51
Well, good stuff. Scott, thank you so much for sharing your story. And really just appreciate this and you know, just anything you want to say in closing before We wrap it up, I just wanted to say, Jason, I said this to you and Phoenix, I really mean it, I really appreciate that you created Platinum properties. It’s improved my life, the life of my family. And as far as I expect, you know, it will continue to do so for years to come. I’m just really appreciative of the impact that this has had and will continue to have on my life. And so I just want to thank you for what you do. Well, thank you, Scott. That’s so nice of you to say that, and then thank you, we should be thanking you for being our customer. So we, we appreciate you being a client and you know, of course, appreciate your business, and will always help you any way we can. So and then, also, thank you so much for sharing your experience on the show really, really great. Every listener always says they love to hear the client case studies. So, listeners, if you’re out there and you’re listening to this, and you’re a client of ours, Hey, come on the show. We’d love to hear from you. And Scott, thank you so much and say hi to Kelly for me.
I sure will thank you, Jason.
Jason Hartman 32:58
Hey, I hope you’ll join me in San Jose. On March 3, as we host, our Jason Hartman University event, now this event is for the real practical hands on interactive education on income property investing, where you will learn how to actually do the math, how to evaluate the deals, we will go in depth into this subject of how to analyze a real estate deal. And once we do that, we’ll talk about how to build a portfolio, how to properly structure a portfolio, how to diversify it, how to sequence your mortgage financing, and it is a fun event. We do some gamification. You’ll meet a lot of people because you’ll be working with the people in the class, and it’s a one day event. You can check it out at Jason Hartman University comm Jason Hartman University comm we’ve been doing this event for about three or four years, and people absolutely love it. We’ve done it in San Diego and Salt Lake City. Now we’re doing it in San Jose. We’ve done it other places as well. I just can’t remember where offhand, but it’s a great event and we try to do it about once a year. I asked her we did it in Oklahoma City. This time we will be in San Jose Silicon Valley on March 3. Jason Hartman University comm Jason Hartman university.com. Get your tickets today, and we’ll look forward to seeing you in Silicon Valley on March 3. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website heart and Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional and we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show please Go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.