Jason Hartman starts the show with Adam Schroeder to discuss the transition from using a professional management company to self-managing rental properties. He gives his own experience in doing so and offers advice on what to look out for. Adam explains how to contact your tenant for the first time, gives a list of forms you’ll need, and talks about pet rent and more.
Welcome to this week’s edition of flashback Friday, your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past that Jason has hand picked to help you today in the present, and propel you into the future. Enjoy.
Hey, Jason, congratulations on your 1000 podcasts. That’s amazing. You are so productive. Not only that for creative work, but everything else that you do pretty incredible football as well. Just want to let you know I’m thinking about you and things are going great.
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur. Who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 1:23
Welcome listeners from around the world. This is Episode 103 for Episode 1034, this is your host, Jason Hartman, thank you so much for joining me today. As I am coming to you so gratefully and so thankfully, from southern Florida, yes, back in the USA. It’s great to be back back from Europe, where I visit a couple of times a year. I guess you could say it’s my homeland. I was born there. So now you know, I can’t run for president. Not that I could win. But I was not born in the United States. I was born in Europe. Land of scarcity versus America the land of abundance. Yes, Europe where everything is smaller, lesser and lamer than it is in America. But I do visit there a couple of times a year. It seems like every year I was gone for almost a month. This time I like to visit. But I got to tell you, it is so hard to get anything done there. It is unbelievable. I just can’t imagine if I was in business in Europe. Now, of course we say Europe, it’s a generalization because every country is different. Right? But, you know, the overriding theme is bureaucracy, socialism, difficult to do things everybody talks about the procedure. It’s this is our procedure. Don’t you understand? We can’t actually think we’re drones. This is the procedure. Anyway, I gotta stop picking on Europe because I’m gonna offend more of my European audience. Hey, sorry. I know if you’re in Europe and you’re listening to this. You are not one of them and you are frustrated by exactly what I’m telling you because it is frustrating. It’s very frustrating. It’s kind of like attitude that the government will solve all your problems. I just, it just weaves its way through every part of life. You know, people say, Why do you talk about politics so much politics? It’s like air. You know, it’s a big deal. It’s the context in which we live, it impacts so much of our lives. But you know, whatever. We don’t have to keep on that. So what else is going on here? So the economy is booming. Congratulations to Trump love him or hate him. surpassed his growth goals in the last quarter. 4.1% I think I talked about that on the last episode. things they are booming. But let me tell you something before I bring on our guest today, you’ve heard him on the show before before we bring them on. Let me tell you something. I love a good recession. Yes, I do love a good recession. Why do I love a good recession because people actually Better in a good recession. Here’s what I mean by that. Even good people, people that are moral ethical people, even they are human, and they get busy, and they become ungrateful. And they stop trying when everything is handed to them too easily. And I gotta tell you, in an economy that is booming, people start to suck. They just do they become ungrateful about their customers. Don’t let me ever get like that. I will never be like that. I tell you. I am always grateful for my customers and clients. Maybe that’s because I grew up poor. I hope I never take them for granted. But a lot of people do. And the other thing that happens is in a booming economy in a booming environment, every flake under the sun comes out of the woodwork. I mean they just come out of the woodwork because It’s so easy to earn money that everybody can make it. When times are booming when money is sloshing around everywhere. When times are bad when it’s harder to get by when it’s harder to make it when it’s harder to establish oneself in the marketplace, where inventory isn’t scarce and reputation matters, and treating customers well matters. Well then, you know, you don’t see these people, they go back under the stone, you know, they live under or they go back to delivering pizza or working at Starbucks or whatever they do. But boy, when the economy is booming, every flake comes out of the woodwork. So two components here, I’m mentioning Okay, and, and you’ve all noticed it in your life, right? It doesn’t have to be in real estate. It’s in every area of life. The service isn’t as good. The people don’t care as much because hey, business is booming. Nobody matter who you are, no matter what you do, you know, the rising tide floats all ships, right? That’s the old saying the rising tide floats all the ships. And so that’s kind of the thing that is frustrating about a really good booming economy. Otherwise, hey, it’s great. It’s great. But it is frustrating. And you look at it. And you know, there are all these, you know, new gurus out there, right. And they haven’t even been through a cycle yet. They weren’t doing what I do during the Great Recession. And they certainly weren’t doing it during the three recessions before that. I mean, look, folks, I’ve been doing this for more than a quarter of a century. Yes, I know. I’m old. I’ve been doing it for more than a quarter of a century. Okay. I’ve been through the cycles. I’ve seen it happen. And you know, there is a lot to learn from that experience. I remember when I was younger and more cocky, and I know some of you are thinking you’re still cocky. No, I’m not. I’m much more humble now, because I’ve been through a few things. You know, I thought it’s so easy, you know, you don’t need to listen to these slow moving experienced people. I’m bored with all that, right? Let me just go out and make money, the sun shining everywhere, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I tell you, you know, those older experienced people, they know something. They’ve seen things that you haven’t seen, they’ve experienced things that you haven’t experienced. And then in the real estate business, you know, I don’t think I’m gonna declare something here. Maybe you’ll think I’m nuts. I think out of anybody in this business that does what we do. basically helping people buy investment properties nationwide and build nationwide portfolios of real estate. I’m going to declare that I think I am the most experienced person in this business. Yeah, I think I am. My closest competitor is radically less experienced than I am. And that’s my closest competitor. Okay, who I liked by the way, I like my competitor. Well, this particular one, some of them I don’t like because some of them are just crooks. Well, I don’t want to say that too strong because I’m about to get sued. Okay, so some of them are just sleazy operators. put it that way. But hey, you know, my closest competitor, a more experienced than that person by about two fold. So there you go, there you go. I think I’m the most experienced person in this place. I’ve had hundreds of tenants, hundreds of properties, you know, done all kinds of stuff in this field. So that is my cocky statement for the day. Tell me if I’m wrong. Am I wrong? Is there someone more experienced than me? That does what I do. Jason hartman.com slash ask, put me in my place and tell me, I don’t know anything? Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I mean, I’ve been involved in probably I was kind of adding this up in my head the other day and it’s not an exact number. Not an exact number but I’ve been involved I think in about 10,000 real estate transactions 10 Grand 10,000. And think about it, if you do the math when I was in resale real estate, you know, I’d sell anywhere between maybe 50 and 100 houses a year, depending on the year. And I did that for many, many, many years, almost 20. And then in this business, I know they overlapped a little bit, you know, I’ve been doing this for 14 years, and they overlapped a bit there in between, I was kind of doing both, you know, we’ve done maybe a few thousand transactions now in this side of the business. So, yeah, that’s a lot of experience. Okay. I will shut up now because I know I’m boring you with all my experience. Okay. Let me welcome back a returning guest and a client of ours. We’ll do a little case study here. And that is Adam Schroeder. Adam, welcome back. How are you?
I’m doing well. Thanks for having me on again.
Jason Hartman 9:54
Good. It’s good to have you and folks, you might remember that when Adam was on the show before he said This awesome thing is I was staying at his house for a couple days. It was great. Stay in there with you and the kids. And Adam has four kids. So he’s
thankfully resting right now.
Jason Hartman 10:10
Yes, yes. Yes. So that’s why I don’t hear all this noise in the background. Like, you know, you leave me these voxer messages and it sounds like a chaos over there, Adam, it’s crazy. But I think when you’re a parent, you become a little bit immune to that sound, you know, it’s just sort of like a dull roar, you know, get gonna get kind of immunize to it a little bit.
But anyway, and in the background,
Jason Hartman 10:31
yeah, yeah, it’s like a fan. And it’s like white noise, your white noise machine, right? Yeah. But you might remember Adam had this awesome family mission statement on the wall, in his family room in the house. And it was on the wall and like canvas and had this really cool thing and talked about it on the show before so that was good, Adam, but today you have some management and self management. We’re talking property management Questions. Apparently you Stoke your property one of your property managers. You’ve got a few houses in Memphis. I know. Are you in another market too? I can’t remember
where? Yeah, we have three in Memphis right now. And we just signed a purchase agreement for one in Jackson. On Friday. Jackson, Mississippi. Yes.
Jason Hartman 11:17
Good stuff. Mia. SSIS si. ppi. Okay, good. I remember learning to spell that when I was a kid. So you put that one under contract, okay. Now you’re not self managing anything, right? You’re doing property management all the way right professional man. Okay, right now. Yeah. And you had some questions for me. I think you said you stumped your property manager a little bit too with some questions. Tell us about that.
So I was just going along with the standard property management. And then I went to meet the masters. And y’all had the kind of discussion of the hybrid model and I got interested in it and you also during one of the property management sessions, you brought up some points that I thought oh, I need to ask My property manager about that and find out and so I started asking him questions and that’s okay. So wait a sec, wait, wait, wait, let me say a couple things.
Jason Hartman 12:07
So this was our meet the Masters conference where we had ron paul speak and john burns and bunch of other speakers last January in La Jolla. You were there you you actually did a little couple of broadcasts from that, but I thought was a super creative idea. So thank you for doing that. And you By the way, I didn’t say this, but you are located in Austin, Texas. Okay. So just wanted to give a little perspective, but go ahead with what you’re saying.
I started asking them questions saying hey, can I get this Hey, can I get that hey, this was mentioned at meet the Masters you can I get that from you. And it just became the more questions I asked the longer it took to get a response. And then we had our annual or semiannual walkthrough, and they did the walkthrough, but we didn’t get the report for two to three months. And then there were some problems that they wanted to fix. And I said okay, well, there’s no picture of that on the report. I need a picture of that to justify the expense. It took another couple weeks or a month to get the pictures and get all the answers. And it just became a nightmare. And I started thinking, you know what, if I’m going to go through all of this hassle, getting an answer from them, I may as well just do it myself. But before I do it myself, I wanted to get a little bit more clarity, which is why I wanted to do this podcast with you. Yeah, well, you know what, folks? This is what I’ve been saying about self management. Okay. And I don’t know that that’s where we’re going with this because by the way, this interview is completely impromptu. I have no idea what Adams going to ask me. Okay.
Jason Hartman 13:32
But if it’s about self management, you know, a lot of you think that it’s harder to self manage. I submit to you that it could be a lot easier. You know, like some people think, well, I don’t have the time to manage my own properties, right, folks, sometimes it’s less time to do it yourself. Here’s a great example that I’ve have shared before in the old days. People wouldn’t type their own letters, right? You know, I remember my mom when I was a kid, my mom was executive director of the Leukemia society. And she had a secretary and the Secretary, I remember hanging out at the office there because, you know, I was a latchkey kid. And so I just hang out at her office a lot. And I’d work there too, you know, and they’d pay me like nothing. But anyway, and then this was in Santa Monica, California. And my mom would say, hey, Pam, come in. Pam was one of her secretaries at the time. Pam come in and take a letter. And Pam would bring in a steno pad, stenographer pad, and write shorthand, and write what my mom would tell her and then go type it right. How many people do that nowadays? know everybody types, their own stuff, they email it, right? Nobody has people typing their own stuff anymore. Okay? It’s just not done, because it’s just easier to do it yourself. Same is true with like, You know, booking travel, for example, you know, I used to have Karen, who’s been on the show. And you know, she used to be our operations manager, when we had our big offices in Orange County, California. And Karen used to book my travel for me. Well, you know, what I realized as good as Karen is, it’s easier for me to just do it myself. I just you don’t need to have a middleman for some of this stuff. Sometimes it’s just easier to do it yourself. So anyway, that’s my thing on self management. Okay, Adam, go ahead. Sorry,
in relation to that. So what happened? The one that really spawned This was they did the home inspection on one of our properties. They emailed it to me on May 29. Aaron, and I looked at it Aaron’s my wife, we looked at it that night, we responded on the 30th. And then she said, they would reach out and get some more photos that day. She sent it on the 30th. And then on June 26, I emailed them and said, Hey, I haven’t heard anything and I wanted to check in and they didn’t respond and on July 13, I them. And I copied Oliver actually my investment counselor because they tend to respond more whenever I include him. And I on July 13, and then July 17, Oliver sent an email saying, Hey, what’s going on? And then she responded to that she responded to all of her once he got involved. And so it went from May 29 to July 17. Just isn’t that ridiculous? Just the simplest thing, just to get painters of this right of the damage. So my question is, as I’m considering the possibility, and as I’m, we’re probably going to go into self management in that market. What information do I need to get from the current property manager to be ready for the switch? Do I need to get anything from them?
Jason Hartman 16:40
The first thing is everybody should always have a library of pictures on every property they own. Okay, you always need that because every time you remark at the property, you need that and just your property manager should just give you a complete file. Now some of the stuff they’re going to say that can’t give you because of the tenants privacy. And this is another battle. You don’t have to engage in, if you self manage, you know, there are laws, of course protecting the tenants privacy. But if you take the middleman out and you manage your own properties, you hold those documents. Now you got to be respectful of all that, of course, but that’s a separate issue. But we’ve had cases, maybe like once or twice, I remember this coming up out of thousands of deals where the tenant will owe the landlord money at the end of the lease, right? They all either have some damages to the property or, you know, maybe they had an eviction or something right. And the landlord wants to pursue a judgment against the tenant. But the property manager will say, well, we can’t provide you a copy of their application and credit report, because that violates our obligation to the tenants privacy, right? Well, if you don’t have a manager and you’re the manager You have that. So if you need to get that information for collection agency, you got it right. There’s no battle. It just amazes me how lame some of these managers are sometimes and listen, they’re not all lame, okay, I know I make it sound like they are by the way I talk. You know why? Because I don’t point out all the good things they do and that’s not fair. Okay. I will be the first to admit they do a lot of good things. They do a lot of stuff right. But that’s not what we’re talking about. Remember, I’m a complainer. Okay and complainers change the world. There’s a Jason Hartman quote, Gandhi was a complainer Martin Luther King was a complainer Rosa Parks was a complainer complainers change the world. That’s my excuse for being a complainer. I don’t know if it works, but so you need to get a complete file. And you need to have a full library of pictures on all your properties. Okay? Always keep that nicely organized in your computer. So whenever you Have the property go up for lease. And then you can also I want to remind you all you can use a service called we go look calm, we go look calm. I interviewed them on the show before you might remember the episode where I had the the CEO of we go look calm on. And for 69 bucks, they’ll go look at things take multiple pictures report on things for you. super handy service for remote management. So is there something in particular you’re thinking besides just a complete file on the property? No. I mean, if it was pictures, kind of what kind of paperwork I can actually get from the property manager, like, I had to ask, I realized after meet the Masters that I didn’t have the actual lease, signed lease from the tenant, so I got rice, but I didn’t get all that. Yeah, I didn’t know if there were any other things that I wasn’t thinking of that I needed to get from them. So you’re saying there’s a chance I could get the application but, you know, they may. They may I don’t know. You know, just see what they’re going to say but you Tell them you want a complete file. And you know everything. I mean, you know, you have the right to it, they may bring up the privacy thing a little bit. They may object to some of that stuff. But what I would say is, look, if they do that, just say, Okay, if there’s something you can’t show me, then I want a redacted application. If you need to take something off of that and redacted for tenant privacy purposes that you can’t give to me, then send me the application redacted. Just blackout the information that I can’t see.
Okay. And then after we’re switching, I’m assuming I should send a letter or an email to the actual tenant to say, hey, you’re going to be in contact with me? what all do I need to give them? or What else should I give them?
Jason Hartman 20:45
You don’t really need to give them anything except tell them where to send the rent. And you know, I would just exchange contact information with him. You’re going to find that most of these tenants are just decent people, and they want to maintain a nice relationship with you and You’re going to find that everything’s going to be great. And you’re going to find that a lot of them do a lot of the repair work for you for free. So that’s nice, too. So,
okay, and so whenever you have to sign a new rent contract, where do you find like the contracts and all of the things you’re going to need to either reopen the current tenant or to find a new tenant?
Jason Hartman 21:19
Yeah, yeah, good question. So you can either get them from a property manager or a real estate agent in that local area. And by the way, these go state by state, but, you know, if it’s in Memphis, even the property manager you’re leaving, you can get it from them, okay? Because, you know, a good way to sort of change that relationship rather than end that relationship is to say to them, Look, I still need all a carte services. When the tenant turns between tenants. I need you to handle that for me. How much would you charge me? And some say we don’t do that. You know, they don’t do all a card or a bundled services, but a lot of them do it. Okay. So you can find a property manager that does it or you can have a real estate agent do it. And the real estate agents and property managers have access to the form library with all the different forms and documents now, that’s one place. Okay, that’s a good place to get this stuff. But you can also go to places like no lo Nolo press no lo calm and o l o calm. I think, you know, I mean, that may not be their exact website, but I think it’s probably no lo com. They have a lot of great books on property management. And they have a form library on their site. You can buy forms there, you know, you could buy them on amazon.com stationery stores sell generic forms. You can get them at places like Rocket Lawyer calm. There are zillions of places these forms are not a big deal. Okay? It’s just not a big deal.
And so if they don’t do Allah carte services, or if I’m not in than having them do it to say, what’s the best way to find an agent that will actually know what they’re doing?
Jason Hartman 23:05
Well, ya know, what they’re doing is a whole Good question. Because most of them don’t know what they’re doing. But you know, what happens when you use all a CART services, is there’s always a little bit of tension, because you’re always automatically dangling a little carrot in front of them, because they want to get your business. You know, if it’s a real estate agent that doesn’t do property management, they want to form a relationship with you. Because, you know, the likelihood is with most people, you know, in five years, you’re going to sell that property or three years, you know, or you might refer them to someone or you might want to buy another investment property in the area, you know, so they always know that there’s maybe some future business coming right with a real estate agent. With a property manager. It’s kind of the same thing. They want to get your property management account. So you can go and you can find property managers, you can look at Yelp and review reviews and stuff. It Like I’ve said before, I just want to caution everybody, that one of the challenges with property managers is the conflict of interest problem. You know, there’s an old saying you can’t serve two masters, you can’t serve two masters, you can only serve one. So a property manager might have bad Yelp reviews. But that might be because they’re strict with the tenants and the tenants hate that. So actually reading and looking at the reviews is important. So you know, you gotta sift through them. I mean, you know, you can’t believe anything you read online, but it’s better than nothing, right? It’s a guide, and get a referral, you know, get a referral from your investment counselor at our company, get a referral from other investors that you meet at our events. Those are good ways to so there’s lots of ways to do it. I just think that the type of relationship you get into with a full fledged property management agreement in less than Property Manager is really good. Some of them are really good, most are mediocre and some of them just suck. Okay, well, let’s face it is that even if they’re really good, or mediocre? You know, they get complacent. You know, with property management, it’s like you have a contract, you’re stuck with them. Right? You know, where is if it’s an all a cart service, you know, you’re not stuck with them. And everybody just views the relationship differently. Okay. You know, I’ll give you an example. In traditional real estate, like I used to be in traditional real estate for many years, right. The agents that had really long listing agreements, when someone wanted to sell their house, and if they gave me a really long listing agreement, I’m going to be a little more complacent about that. I hate to say it, right. It’s just human nature. Because you have time the listings not going to expire. You know, the seller is locked up. they’ve committed to you for X amount of time. If the listing the green Short, you know, it motivates them to work a little harder. Now, you don’t want to make it too short, that they’re going to think I’m probably not going to sell this house anyway. Right? Because it’s just not enough time. So, you know, whatever happens happens, but there’s a happy medium there in that relationship. Right.
Does that answer it? Yeah, I think so. So what kind of fees should I expect? I expect the general fee that I’m currently paying my property manager, which is like half a month rent.
Jason Hartman 26:26
Yeah, it varies by area. So some areas, the properties go into the multiple listing service the MLS, and in some areas, they don’t, okay, so it depends. And in some areas, the MLS fee to the CO broker or the agent that brings in the tenant, if they’re co brokering the deal will be 3% of the lease term. So how that works is an example of say the properties about 800 bucks a month just as an example, right, because I’m making it around number That’ll be about $10,000 a year if it’s a one year lease, right? 3% would be $300. Okay, that each agent would get 600 total, okay? that they’d split, but it’s probably not going to be that on that low of a rent. So it might be half a month’s rent, it might be 75% of the first month’s rent, it might be one month’s rent, okay? Or it might be a different scheme all together, like I mentioned with the MLS. Now, here’s the thing. You could make an agreement with a real estate agent or a property manager, but maybe even more likely a real estate agent that says, Look, I’ll do all the marketing, don’t worry about it. And you go list the property on postlets. You’ve got the pictures, you’ve got beautiful pictures of your houses, and you put it online and you list it yourself. And maybe you set up an email address. Okay? It’s a special email address. That’s like Adams Memphis properties calm or something like that, right? And this email address forwards to you to your regular email address and to whatever real estate agent or property managers address, you put that address on your postlets account, your Zillow account, whatever Craigslist, if you put it there. And then every time a lead comes in every time a tenant says they’re interested in that property, a prospective tenant, you both get the email. And you both see how many leads are coming through. And you know, a lot of these sites have dashboards on the back end where you can look there, and so forth. And it’s just a whole different relationship. When you see what’s going on. And you have some control over that relationship. And you know what, when I’ve done this, it motivates the property manager, because, you know, I say to them, hey, look, we got a doesn’t increase Last week, what happened to all those prospective tenants? You know, it’s just a whole different dynamic, Adam, it’s great. It’s great. Get a little control of this relationship. And this doesn’t take a lot of time. It’s just really, it’s like, hey, should I call someone into my office to dictate an email to them or just right at myself right
now getting into insurance? I think right now, the way our insurance is set up is we’re on a master policy with the property manager. Individual policies or lumping together for a commercial policy.
Jason Hartman 29:36
That’s a toughie. Okay, so probably, the individual policies are going to be better. Okay, probably the I’m not an insurance expert. Okay, but I just know how I got burned. And another one of our clients got burned by that affinity group management. They also go buy in whatever it national real estate Insurance Group and R e However, that is G or whatever, big, you know, national real estate Insurance Group. And now I think they’re under Rei guard or something like that I’m don’t quote me on this, because I’m not sure, but they’re using all these different names out there. And I know that there have been many complaints about them, and they burned me, they wouldn’t pay a claim that I had. I know that they wouldn’t pay one of our other clients claims to, and this was one of these very inexpensive insurances and insurance policies where they would insure your whole portfolio of properties, they wouldn’t charge you much at all. But then when the claims, you know, when it was time to make a claim, you know, they got a million excuses not to pay, and that was really annoying. individual insurance is probably going to be better. But again, insurance has become a bit complicated, and I’m not an expert. Now. We’ve had at Baptists on the show before he’s been at several of our events, you know, he’s insured a lot of our clients and properties over the years. And you know, he’s kind of talked about the difference between that and just look for those past episodes about insurance. Maybe go to Jason Hartman calm and just type the insurance, and you’ll see them come up because there’s a lot more detail
there. Now I know you’re a huge fan of pet rent.
Jason Hartman 31:17
Yep. And I’m a huge fan of pets too. I love animals, but they gotta pay their way.
Do you currently charge pet rent for your Oh, yeah. What have you found is a reasonable amount. 25 bucks
Jason Hartman 31:30
per pet. Okay. Yeah. So if they if they’ve got two cats, you know, you might make them a better deal. You know, maybe make it 44 or 25. For one, you know, 25 bucks a month. I mean, look, folks, every institutional landlord is charging pet rent. Why aren’t we doing it? institutional landlords, in other words that own big apartment complexes. And also, you know, these Wall Street firms, you know, private equity groups that own all these thousands of houses that they’re renting. They nickel and dime people for everything. Okay, folks, you should be nickel and dimed a little bit, you know, it’s the way it is in the marketplace. If they can charge it, you can charge it. It’s much nicer to live in a single family home than a crummy apartment building. So why can’t we charge that stuff to just like they are. And mostly it’s at the single family home landlords just aren’t asking for it. Just ask for it. You’ll be surprised how often you get it. This will be continued on the next episode.
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