In this episode, Jason Hartman talks to Drew Baker about essential topics to income property investors. They discuss how the IRS’s tax code does not correctly account for inflation. Jason’ explains Inflation-induced debt destruction, his ultimate investing equation. Later we hear from Andrew Baker about his experience with investing in income property.

Announcer 0:00
This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman

Announcer 0:13
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the company leet solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 1:03
So you’ve heard my rants about how our financial system is rigged, and I’ve interviewed hundreds of experts to back up those claims and help you align your investments with the most powerful forces in the world, governments and central banks. I’m also using a perpetual wealth strategy with my income property investments that you should check out. It has enhanced the security of my liquid assets, boosted overall ROI and shifted money away from the banksters my friend Pat Donahoe, who’s one of our venture Alliance members, runs paradigm life and he has a free report that you can download at be your that’s B your bank comm check it out today. Welcome to the creating wealth show, episode number 875 875. This is your host, Jason Hartman. And I want to say welcome and thank you To our listeners in 164 countries worldwide, yes, 164 countries someday maybe the entire globe will be listening to the show. I don’t know probably the folks in North Korea won’t be listening anytime soon. And maybe not the people in Myanmar, formerly Burma. Probably we don’t have any listeners in Cuba, I suppose. But yeah, 164 countries. That’s pretty darn cool. And you know, this is the most amazing time to be alive as I say, right? Because Never before have we had it where so many people can talk to so many people and the exchange of ideas in this very vibrant time in which we live is just nothing, nothing short of amazing. But at the very same time, I don’t know if any of you saw the the movie I think it was called idiocracy. That was kind of a funny one, but a bit sad at the same time. at the very same time, we have this sort of class of people who are just sort of feasting off the system leeching off the system, not very motivated to improve themselves not very motivated to grow just sort of getting by, you know, luxury is the call to apathy. As the old saying goes, I originally heard that at age 17, from Dr. Denis waitley, one of my early mentors. It’s it’s kind of a real dichotomy that we live under nowadays, but maybe we’ll talk about that a little bit on today’s show and talk about some, of course, real estate investing ideas arbitrage, some other things, house prices in in different things, not just in dollars, or euros or whatever currency in which you happen to be most acquainted with, but also maybe in precious metals like gold, and some other stuff like that. But I want to also announce the winner of our Amazon Echo contest. Alexa, what time is it?

‘Alexa’ 4:03
The time is 2:30pm.

Jason Hartman 4:05
I don’t know if you can hear that. But Alexa said it was 2:30pm. And that is on Sunday afternoon. So, the winner of our Amazon Echo not Alexa. contest is Jake Blair. Jake Blair, you are the winner of the Amazon Echo. And thanks to all of you who entered, we appreciate that. And we’re gonna keep running these cute little contest. I know, they’re just a little sideline, but you know what they do? You give us such great questions and such great feedback and things like that. So I hope to get a little time to share some of those questions and feedback from the entries. today. We also have a new thing we’re doing, I have been studying. And I haven’t talked too much about it on this show. But on one of my other podcast I have done several shows on this topic. But I have been studying the world of short term rentals for many years. And I want to study this a little more deeply. You know, I consider myself to be a rather careful and sometimes over analytical person, and I’m trying to overcome myself. You know, there’s a great quote, I think it was by jack Paar who said, life is one long obstacle course. With me, as the chief obstacle, we’re all our biggest obstacle sometimes, you know, that’s the way I am sometimes I overanalyze things. Well, mostly I overanalyze things and agonize too much and worry too much and do all of that kind of stuff. So anyway, this is a topic I’ve been studying for years. And that’s the topic of short term rentals. Many of our clients have asked us about them. We have many clients that you know, do the long term rental thing and you know, they have a short term rental or two on the side. And they’re, you know, doing business on Airbnb or VR Bo or any other short term rental sites out there. So what we want to do is Get together a little Council. Yes, a council of people who are in the short term rental business, and we will for you volunteering so graciously for our little Council. We will offer you some cool things. We will offer you some exclusive access to things at our events, maybe dinners lunches, that not everybody’s invited to and you know, give you some recognition, maybe do some panel discussions, have you on the podcast, whatever. So here’s what you do. If you have experience with short term rental properties, go to Jason Slash str. Doesn’t that sound cool? We gave it an acronym str short term rental, go there and apply to be on our little Council. And tell us about your experience with short term rental properties. Now, this isn’t for anybody who’s interested. It’s only for people who are experienced. The idea is We want to have this counsel impart their experience to those of you who are interested. Okay. And what I always say is, some of the greatest learning that I ever get is learning from you, our clients and our listeners. That is the greatest learning of all. So we’ve got one of those people on the show today to help me with today’s show. And he was just on and he’s back, because he’s a friend of mine, and he’s a client, and just an all around interesting guy. And that is Mr. Drew Baker. Andrew, welcome back. How are you?

Andrew Baker 7:35
Hey, thanks for having me.

Jason Hartman 7:36
Yeah. Again. I listened to me ramble for quite a while there before I introduced you. Yeah, you forgot you forgot I

Andrew Baker 7:43
was online.

Jason Hartman 7:46
Yeah, I know sometimes I got so much going on.

Andrew Baker 7:50
It’s hard to remember all that stuff. But hey, you and i, you recommended to me a really interesting Peter Schiff interview. our listeners know that I had Peter Schiff on On the show a long time ago, I sort of have a love hate relationship with this guy. I invested with him. And that was a disaster. He lost a fortune of my money. And his people, his advisors didn’t even seem to give a damn. I mean, like, almost antagonistically apathetic, it was pathetic. So I would definitely not invest with him. But man, that guy is super intelligent. He is I call Peter, the master of the sound bite. And he can just ramble on and on forever. And anyway, I was watching this YouTube video with him that you recommended. And Andrew, you know, he brought up a lot of interesting stuff there. Was there anything that was particularly interesting to you that you might think would be interested to or interesting to our listeners today? Well, this, this was, you know, Joe Rogan, the Joe Rogan experience. This is Episode 1002. And Peter came on about three years ago and sort of talked To the audience, and this audience is not really doesn’t get a lot of economists or investor types on. So they’re sort of not exposed to this sort of thing. And Peter came back on and was invited on originally because he went and spoke to all the protesters on Wall Street. You know, the 91% of you have Occupy Wall Street and had a video that was so interesting that Joe Rogan had him on the show. So you know, on this recent show, Joe or Peter and Joe sort of fleshed out things like the minimum wage, the wage gap between men and women and their thoughts on that to the government and housing and, and so it is very interesting how the housing market and you know, Joe kind of doesn’t know all this stuff. So Peters kind of giving him his expos a and I believe Joe is a market guy. He endorsed Ron Paul. So he’s kind of Onboard but has sort of a more liberal influence because he’s in Hollywood, and he has, you know, act or stuff on a show. So it was interesting kind of having Joe see both sides of the field and, and kind of have Peter kind of give him a monologue, which was brilliantly done about, you know, kind of his philosophy and

Jason Hartman 10:21
just really fears ppps people say I’m long winded.

Andrew Baker 10:26
I didn’t know how much energy Peter has on the show is just and how direct he is just

Jason Hartman 10:34
pretty interesting. So So what was so you know, talk to us specifically, though, about, you know, some of the topics I mean, I love that stuff about minimum wage, you know, minimum wage has got to be the stupidest frickin idea ever. And anybody who believes in minimum wage has no understanding of basic economics. It is just a it is a terrible idea. And you know, that’s the Uh, you know, I pick on the left the most on the political aisle I pick on the right to, you know, because I’m definitely not a Republican, I left the Republican Party quite a few years ago. But you know, the left is just so myopic. I mean, I don’t know if they’re like trying to hurt people, you know, it’s this old idea of like, you know, you create a problem. So you can look like the hero and come in and solve it, you know, and ride to the rescue, here comes the cavalry. But never mind that nobody noticed that the cavalry in quotes, created the problem in the first place, so that they could look like the heroes. And that’s the funny thing. You know, when I had steve forbes on the show, he talked about how the government always seems to somehow occupy the moral high ground in life. And that’s so true, but it’s so it’s such a bad belief. It’s so false. It’s just not reality that the government should somehow occupy the moment moral high ground. And this this concept of minimum wage creates massive unemployment. It creates massive crime problems. I mean, I don’t think Peter even talked about this. But you know, if if anybody in the world, you know, if if they’re offered five bucks an hour to do a job, and someone else will pay them $6 an hour, they’re going to go take the $6. Right? Obviously, they’re going to do what’s in their own best interest. And is if there needs to be this other third party that needs to come in the deal and say, No, you can’t pay the guy $5 an hour. That’s just the dumbest idea ever. So now that $5 an hour guy, instead of being hired is replaced by a robot or he’s you know, he’s just not hired at all. And the group’s since we’re, you know, talking so much lately, this country seems to be like addicted to the subject of racism. Which is completely ridiculous. Look up Morgan Freeman. I mean, the first time I’ve ever agreed with Morgan Freeman in a while is his topic on, you know, race relations. He’s absolutely nails it, you know that we got to stop counting people and calling people by their race. You know, he says in this interview, he says, I’m not Morgan. I’m not a black man on Morgan Freeman, you know? Exactly. You know, everybody should be judged as an individual. And the smallest minority on earth is the individual right? Like iron. Rand says,

Andrew Baker 13:31
exactly. That’s he beat me to the chase. Yeah, if you’re not going to protect minorities can’t starting with an individual, then you certainly can’t protect, you know, minorities on the whole, because the minority of one trumps everything. So

Jason Hartman 13:47
it absolutely does. Yeah,

Andrew Baker 13:49
yeah. I think Peter talked about on this on this podcast, which I encourage your guests or your people listeners to take a listen to it was just how you’re right. It’s his mandate in unemployment. If somebody comes to the table and doesn’t have any skills, they should not be paid a living wage because they don’t have the money, because they haven’t come with the skills to sustain that. So, you know, like with me and I lived at home, I got a job, I walked to my first job, saved enough money to get a car, then I was there because I want to get a job that was higher pain. And, you know, I discriminated my employer, I said, Okay, I don’t want you know, you’re not going to pay me enough. I don’t like my manager, I’m going to leave. Whereas, you know, and Peter talked about how businesses don’t have those sort of rights, that you know, politicians have stripped that away. So the employer can basically never sue the employee and how unfair it is to you know, that he talks about how discriminating, you know, you discriminate with your relationships with other people. And, you know, the idea is some if some business wants to discriminate, and they want to endorse it Terrible idea, the first person that should protest it is the one who wants to protect, you know, protect the rights of others. So if somebody wants to make a bad decision, they’re going to pay the consequences in the marketplace. And it shouldn’t be from a politician trying to you know, so it was really interesting. And he talked about how there’s so much skepticism with the businessman and the decisions that he makes, but no one wants to ever scrutinize the politician and his wanting to get rich off politics, and how the whole system is totally been manipulated to make people’s outlook be so skeptical of the entrepreneur who’s trying to you know, add value to something whereas the politician comes in and takes $1 in and gives 10 cents out the other side. So it just gets tied up in their little, you know, maze of, you know, handshake doors. Yeah, absolutely.

Jason Hartman 15:55
You know, I want I want everybody to consider this. This is one of the concepts That changed my life. As a real estate investor as a person, it is just critical to understand. And that’s the difference between context and content. And this speaks to your point, but as usual, it’s going to be roundabout so get ready, okay? But the concept is that, you know, people who are brainwashed, don’t know they’re brainwashed, and I, I will freely admit that we’re all brainwashed including yours truly, in some way. There’s no question about it. Okay, we all have our bias and prejudice and, you know, our thoughts and we think we’re right, and we, you know, look for con what’s called confirmation bias to we find all the things and sift them out in the world that support our viewpoint, and then we parrot them back to other people and keep believing them even more. Right. So, you know, this is something humans do, okay? It’s probably a old survival skill. And and you know, but the content text content is that you know, fish, they don’t know they live in water necessarily. I don’t think I don’t maybe they do, but they don’t think much about the water probably, because the water is just there all the time. That’s the context of their environment. And, you know, last night I was watching reruns of that show Criminal Minds, okay, on Netflix and, and the Criminal Minds show and I used to be a huge fan of 24 I used to love that show, and binge watch it and I, you know, stay up till four in the morning because I had to see the next episode. It was crazy. It was like a total addiction. And you know, in all these shows, always they portray the government is the hero. Okay, now, granted, you know, I’m certainly glad we have police and SWAT teams and, and the, you know, behavioral analysis, you know, that is at the FBI to catch criminals and so forth. But it’s just funny like nothing is ever You know, in the vast majority of any show you’re going to watch is about how the government has biases and does bad things. Because it’s just a bunch of people. That’s all it is. And you know how they mess things up. It’s always them with unlimited resources coming to the rescue, to solve all of our problems and save the day. And you know, where else this has done extensively in in movies and TV is in the business of law. And your your wife is a lawyer, so maybe you want to speak to this one Drew. She works for the public defender, and you know, like, courtroom dramas, and they all they all make it look so good. And like, you know, in the vast majority of relationships I’ve had with the legal system and lawyers has been pretty lame. Actually, I’ve been pretty unimpressed. It’s like the worst service I get of anything in my life of anything that I buy is legal

Andrew Baker 18:58
service. expensive.

Jason Hartman 19:00
Yeah, it’s it’s outrageous. Yeah. It’s probably because it’s over regulated by this infrastructure of the court system. And it’s just so overcomplicated and the government is not the hero folks. They’re portrayed like that.

Andrew Baker 19:15
It is funny because when, when people ask what my what my wife does, and I tell her, she’s an attorney, I mean, we have to hold that back a lot of times, because if we’re just having conversation with someone, it’s instantly a chilling effect, because people because everything is so over litigated, and we’re just the culture of suing over frivolous stuff, just because the the harassment of just the suit require the outcome because it’s so costly just to litigate that the penalty is done at the time that the suit happens.

Jason Hartman 19:50
Imagine, imagine if lawyers if that field were unregulated, okay, now, everybody might be freaking out right now and thinking Are you nuts? What if people do didn’t have to go to law school. What if you could just hire your best friend who was really good at debate, and really good at, you know, proving something to go into court for you and be your advocate and say, Hey, Your Honor, you know, this person did this and that, and it’s wrong, and we should win the case. But instead, it’s this highly over technical, highly over regulated environment where really almost nobody is winning. The lawyers aren’t winning. I like people think the lawyers are winning, but most lawyers I know don’t like their job very much. And they it’s not like they’re making a fortune. And certainly the clients don’t seem to like the system. It’s an industry that’s just ripe for disruption. And again, you see, like during the financial crisis, right, everybody on the left said, Well, we got to regulate these companies more. No, we need to regulate them less. We need to regulate the financial companies less The reason the financial Companies became too big to fail is because the government gave them a monopoly. The same way through regulation of say, for example, and I know this is a far out idea, and some people are gonna freak out and think I’m crazy. Drugs, okay, drugs, right? Look at what’s happened with these you have these massive amount of killings, this massive amount of crime and these drug cartels that are the most vicious, violent, disgusting things, because the government regulates the drugs and the illegal drugs and gives them a monopoly the same way. I’d like you to try and see it this way. The same way they give the criminals on Wall Street, a monopoly through regulation. Okay, that’s the that’s exactly what happened. You’re not going to start a new bank and compete with Goldman Sachs or the criminals at Wells Fargo. I mean, I was just listening to Left wing marketplace, you know, episode about what Wells Fargo and gamble. Wells Fargo has got to be the most crooked frickin bank out there right now. during the crisis. It was BFA and then Chase and and now it seems to be wells. I mean, it’s just like scandal after scandal, these criminals, and nobody ever goes to jail. The company gets fined. But all you’re really doing when you find the company is punishing its shareholders. They didn’t do it. They didn’t do anything wrong. You know, it’s it’s the people who run it. They don’t get fined individually. They just take their shareholders down, not down the whole wisdom. You know, what we’re going to say about Wells Fargo?

Andrew Baker 22:44
Well, I mean, I think the issue there is, you know, blaming over regulation, it’s actually both things because the business you know, the business has an influence on the politics of these big corporations. So they manipulate the laws to benefit them. And then through lobbyists

Andrew Baker 23:00

Andrew Baker 23:00
yeah. And then, you know, a certain outcome happens because the government colludes with these corrupt, you know, these businesses that corrupt them through the money and the power that they, you know, the politicians assume and, you know, that manifests itself in its donor. So, I mean, the problem is, is really the way to solve this is by just making the power of the government smaller, because, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, power corrupts, I guess so. And absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Jason Hartman 23:31
It’s the same. No question about it, no question about it. Hey, Drew, let’s take a couple of Q and A’s from the contest real quickly. I just want to get a couple of these done, because we’ve got quite a stack of questions that are needing answers from our contest that we’ve been holding the last two months. So Kevin Wilson, said, you know, when, when asked, What’s the favorite thing about my investing philosophy, just started listening to Jason’s podcast. Enjoy content so far. The other question was, what advice would you give yourself? back in? 2008? Okay, and I picked 2008. Because a good question, because, you know, that was right in the midst of the financial crisis. Right. And, you know, what advice would you give your 2008 self? Right. And Kevin said, focus on income producing properties. And, you know, that’s sort of a general answer, but very, very true. Julie bat said, paper thing about my investing philosophy, investing in deals that make financial sense today, not based on speculation in the future. Oh, thank you, Julie. That’s commandment number five, Thou shalt not gamble. So don’t invest for appreciation, invest for solid fundamentals and those come down to cash flow. Her advice for her 2008 self would be starting an Amazon FBA business and invest the profits in real estate. Drew you’re in the Amazon business so

Andrew Baker 25:00
I that’s Amazon FBA is very familiar to me. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 25:06
Good stuff. Tim Keeley says favorite thing about my investing philosophy. Let me see his his instant gratification when you get property that cash flows. It makes sense the day you buy it. So same kind of thing. Julie said commandment number five, a financial education and tax policy class wrapped into it in entertainment package how tricky? Yeah, I try to make it entertaining. So thank you, Tim. And then advice for 2008 self Oh yeah. This is one of our providers that we had problems with in Chicago and that is Mac Mac industries. Do not invest with Mac after 2017 and buy as many properties as you can where it makes sense. Don’t be chicken to look at remote properties across the country. I think that’s all great advice. don’t invest with Mac. They were good for a while and then they then They went bankrupt. So they turned bad on us. And

Andrew Baker 26:03
were they builders, what were what were they?

Jason Hartman 26:05
They were rehabbers. They were rehabbing properties in Chicago and doing management and the the property management just went to hell in a handbasket. We started to see some early signs of that and stopped recommending clients. And then shortly thereafter, it was in the news that they declared bankruptcy on a reorganization basis, which isn’t necessarily bad, but I think they were probably doing some unethical things. So we had a conference call for all our clients who purchase through them and you know, have been trying to help them through it and you know, it seems to be working out. Now. That’s the thing about income property investing folks. Remember, you’re a direct investor. So you notice the bumps in the road. When you invest in a fund in a you know, a mutual fund or a stock or a bond. You don’t see the bumps. On the road most of the time unless they’re hugely significant, for example, if you invested in Samsung, okay, which is like one six of South Korea’s economy, I think I just heard that. It’s huge. If you invested in Samsung, and then they got sued by Apple, not once but I think twice and they I think they lost both times Apple just killed them got a giant couple of giant judgments against them. And and that was in the news, that’s a bump, you would feel you would know it right, because it’s a big bump. And you know, if you were a shareholder, I’m sure that affected your stock value. But there’s all kinds of little small bumps You don’t even know about, you know, lawsuits, sexual harassment, patent infringement, little things. competitive landscape, that that changes in that investment that you just don’t even you’re not even aware of, but it gets treated. for you as the investor in, you know, mediocre or even terrible returns on your investment, and that’s a bad deal when you’re a direct investor when you follow commandment number three, you know, you’re you’re investing directly. And so those bumps you feel them. And one of the important things about being an investor and Drew, you’ve certainly felt bumps in your investments we’ve talked about them many times over the years is to control your own mindset, your own emotions, so that you don’t let them get the best of you and you keep focused on the long term. I’ll remember years ago when I was having when I owned a traditional real estate company in Irvine, California that I later sold to Coldwell Banker. It was like every bad thing that could have possibly ever happened happened to me It felt like I mean, it was just the worst experience of my life. That company So I bought it in 1997 started to turn it around took a huge risk and tripled the size of the office. And you know, went from class C to class, a office space, very expensive move. And then guess what happened? The franchise or decided to sell the company and the whole franchise network fell apart. So everybody was wondering, well, what’s the what’s the brand of the company going to be? You know, what’s going to happen? Are you going to change the name of the company? Are you going to go with a different franchise like everybody else? Nobody wanted to work there. And when you’re in a real estate brokerage business, the business you’re really in is recruiting agents who are good agents who can sell properties and have a good client list right? It’s not really selling properties directly. You know, they do that you Your job is to recruit them. And and then, shortly after the hat, guess what else happened? 911 mean you And we moved into this incredibly expensive new office 911 happened. Nobody wanted to come to work. Nobody wanted to buy properties. It was terrible. I mean, it was like, but I, I remember my friend Jay, I said, What should I do? You know, he said, these words, he said, Keep your eye on the ball. Keep your eye on the ball. And I’ll never forget that. And I just put my nose to the grindstone as the saying goes, and I kept working. And you know, a few years later, Coldwell Banker bought the company, and it was a pretty good deal. So, but I could have easily given up and I could have not kept my eye on the ball, and been overcome by all my problems, and that wouldn’t have been a good deal. So

Andrew Baker 30:44
why would you Why would you have back to their previous question? Did we answer the what would you do 10 years ago to give yourself advice is it is it just because I have a couple thoughts? I don’t know. Well, that’s,

Jason Hartman 30:55
that’s not an answer. He it’s just their statement. So this So, everybody you didn’t enter the contest Did you? drew? No, I don’t see your name on here. Sorry, you didn’t enter? Do you already have an Amazon Echo?

Andrew Baker 31:08
I don’t. But I I see him on sale all the time on Amazon. So I probably should buy one.

Jason Hartman 31:13
You gotta get one. They’re great. I have three of them in my house. I love it. But yeah, it’s just a statement. You know, don’t invest with Mac, buy as many properties as you can. where it makes sense. And don’t be chicken to look at remote properties across the country. So that’s good. Tim, you’re being area agnostic, and that’s the great stuff. Okay. Michael Gerber bossy, is that how you say that? My favorite philosophy of his is refi till you die refi till you die. And we’ve talked about that on other shows before. And his advice to his 2008 self would be you can write out a bad market if you have a positive cash flow, and enough money in reserves. Yeah, great advice. So yeah, I only add to that positive mindset, being willing to delay gratification, and then of course positive cash flow and good reserves. Okay, last one here, Drew and then we will move on. Jonathan Lindsey says his favorite philosophy of mine that he likes is the straightforwardness of Jason Hartman his 10 commandments of successful investing. They’re easy to understand and follow the underlying slps standard operating procedures think for success. And then his advice to his 2008 self would be educate yourself sooner on real estate and by slash invest in multifamily property ASAP for a kickstart. Now situations are different in my life limiting my options for investments due to marriage, family primary residence. These factors limit willingness to move back into apartment style living, even if I own it. Hey, you don’t want to be the name Bring your tenant anyway, Jonathan. So I think what you’re saying is like the old idea of like, buy a duplex and live in one and rent the other, right? I don’t know. I’m not sure exactly what you mean by that. But you don’t want to live next to your tenants. Anyway, don’t do that. If that’s what you’re saying, so, good stuff. Well, Jake Blair, you’re the winner, contact your investment counselor, and we’ll get your addressing your address and ship out the Amazon Echo. And we’ve got a whole bunch more questions. We will share on an upcoming episode. Drew. What else did you want to talk about? Maybe on the shift video or anything in general, you know what you were talking to me about? off air is you were just in Laguna Beach today Laguna Beach, California, beautiful place. And you were talking about the price of a house in gold?

Andrew Baker 33:48
Yeah, you know, well, first of all, I was going down to Laguna on Sunday, and you know, colleges started back up because I live in a little college town in England. And so I thought it would be a great time to go but apparently everybody was Going to the beach. So it was just so packed and crowded. And, and it’s I guess there’s a heat wave over here. But yeah, I was I was on the front, I was on the drive talking to a friend and I was just telling them how it seems like, since the government just manipulate the money supply and how in the last, you know, 50 years they’ve hijacked the money money used to be based on gold. And, you know, it was the the constitution it says that, you know, that the government can only mint you know, gold and silver, you know, so money was represented by gold, and how they’ve transitioned that’s a little tender and and what the consequences of that are. So I was telling him, a friend of mine, I said, you know, it’s funny, if you bought a house for $100,000, and then in 10 years, you end up selling it for $200,000. Well, you’re talking about money here. What is that in a more static asset? So it’s, you know, like, let’s say, I know gold is you talking to you’re talking about currency currency rather than Ronnie

Jason Hartman 35:00
Yeah And let me just distinguish that for the listeners for a second. So, currency you know whenever when you look in your wallet and you see those dollars you should not call them money, they are not money they are currency okay currency is a you know a made up construct money the concept of money is that has intrinsic value. Currency never has intrinsic value, it only has value by force because the government basically has, you know, guns more guns than you do. And they say this is something you will be required to trade in. If you open a business and you say, you know, I have a bakery and I’m only going to sell my you know, my bakery sell, you know, coffee cake. I’m only going to sell it to people who want to pay me and gold. You will go to jail because the legal tender laws say that you have to accept dollars okay? And so money and currency are very different things. Just understand that distinction. But go ahead.

Andrew Baker 36:06
Yeah. So, to the analogy, if you buy a house for hundred thousand dollars, and you sell it for 200,010 years later, if you’re basing that in $1, the government is controlling that transaction completely. And so what’s the real price of the house? What is it really done? Is it that the government has debased the money by by 50%? Or by 40%? Or what how does it relate to something that’s more static? So if you take the full picture, and you sell the house for $200,000, the government, you know, basically rubs its chin and says, Look, there’s $100,000 of profit here that’s been gained. But if you’re basing it on the dollar, and you have to pay capital gains, the reason that has gone up in value is because they have debase the currency. If this were a business, they would go to jail for fraud because they are debasing the money and then taking the back end of the of a chunk of the appreciation which was caused by them debasing the currency. So, right.

Jason Hartman 37:05
Isn’t that a great system? They Yeah, no way. But wait, But wait, there’s more. Wait till the IRS comes along. Go ahead.

Andrew Baker 37:13
Yeah, exactly. jail or something. So,

Jason Hartman 37:16
yeah, so they No, no, no, no, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about, you know, we’ve had Dan Ammerman on the show many times and probably need to get him back. It’s been a while. But Dan Ammerman does a really good job at illustrating some of these concepts. Remember what I’ve said to all of you listeners before and Drew, I’ll let you kind of finish and make a point on this. But just to tee it up a little bit. is is that the IRS, the tax code does not properly account for inflation. In some, in most ways, this hurts people. Okay, and the IRS Come on, they know exactly what they’re doing. Because in Drew’s example, you buy the house for $100,000. You sell it for $200,000 and then your cash capital gains tax if you don’t do a 1031. tax deferred exchange is based on the hundred thousand dollar gain. So that sucks because the value of the money has declined. And that’s why the value, not that we shouldn’t even use the word value, it’s not value. It’s the number, that arbitrary price is there’s a difference between price and value. It’s the price, the price went up, but the value didn’t necessarily go up or it maybe it went up to a smaller degree than the price, but you get taxed on the price. You see how the IRS just totally screwed you. But sometimes it works for you. Okay, the fact that the IRS doesn’t know how to account for inflation, or they do but they didn’t figure it out in every way. But drew Go ahead.

Andrew Baker 38:51
Well, I’m curious how is it that they how is it that they don’t know with regards to the you know, how is it How is it that them not accounting for Inflation helps the individual would this just be was low interest rates or what?

Jason Hartman 39:04
It no it helps on on the the concept with interest rates as many times will literally be in a negative interest rate environment. And depending on what you think the rate of the rate of real inflation is, okay, not the government quoted official, manipulated statistic, okay. understates to stick with real inflation is 5%. And you can borrow money at four and a half percent, you’re already making a half a percent before anything else happens, because you’re borrowing it at a negative interest rate below the rate of real inflation. But also, when I talk about my inflation induced debt destruction concept, that’s beautiful, because the IRS doesn’t account for that, and neither do most people. So in the example you gave 10 years go by you buy the house for $100,000 you sell the house for $200,000. And if the debt on that house has been debased by inflation to safe man, you know, I’m these are obviously real numbers, they’re just off the top of my head, but $50,000 in real value is now the loan balance. Okay, so now you’re you’re really making $150,000 Okay, in paper, but if you do a 1031 tax deferred exchange, and you roll that money into another property that’s maybe in an area that has a better chance to appreciate more, or in you know, you turn it into two houses instead of one. So you get a better cash flow obviously, right? Then you are you are beating them at their own game. Okay. And And what if you borrowed that money at a negative interest rate or even at par? Meaning, you know, the real inflation rate was four and a half percent and you borrowed it four and a half percent, but you outsource the debt obligation to a third party called a tenant, you didn’t even pay your own debts. Okay? This is where it gets into what I call the ultimate investing equation where you have so many multi dimensional things we didn’t even talk about the tax benefits you got along the way. We didn’t talk about positive cash flow or anything else.

Andrew Baker 41:26
Yeah, it was great. I got my got my taxes done and it’s it’s amazing how that depreciation is a gift that when when you get your taxes done because any profit that you have gets very closely to be matched by the by what the depreciation is. I mean, I know that’s not true for everything but it is funny how the tax code really is beneficial to those that want to invest in real estate. And you know, I took my first shot at buying some stocks and I did pretty well because the timing but I think You know, anybody that had invested right before Trump became president would do all right. But, but then I ended up selling it because I knew that the prices were going to change. And it was amazing how once I did the math, how much risk I took, and how on board factor and yeah, once you factor in the, the, what you gave to the government, you realize, oh, gosh, why did I take all this risk? You know, whereas if you invest in real estate, it’s like the tortoise and the hare, you know, it’s probably better to be slow and steady and, and methodical about what you do than to gamble,

Jason Hartman 42:35
no question about it. And that’s the unfortunate thing about the system in which we live. The government has basically pushed people into high risk investments, that no would not be there because they can’t earn any yield off their savings in real dollars. If you put your money in a CD, you know, with older conservative people should be able to buy bonds and put their money in You know, a laddered cd portfolio right in the bank certificate of deposit. But with with real inflation and the artificially low rates we have there, they get killed, they can’t do it. And so they pushed all kinds of people into this. But the one point I wanted to make is that when you have a big gain in something like a stock, just remember the government hasn’t collected their share of that yet, and it’s very significant. But also, when you have a bump in the road, and you get hurt on a real estate deal, and you think, Oh my god, this is terrible. My property’s been vacant. My tenant, you know, beat up the house and I got to spend this money to make it rent ready again. And you know, look at folks, real estate or income property is not immune to problems. It definitely has problems. I deal with them constantly and I hear about them constantly. But what you aren’t remembering about the problem you’re having trying to get you to look at it from both sides is that the government is also your partner on the downside. Okay, so if you have a, you know, a $3,000 disaster, and you’re all depressed and sad about it with your property, but you know, remember when tax time comes around, the government’s gonna cover about 40% of that depending on your tax bracket and what state you live in, if you, you know, this is where it’s actually good to live in a place like the Socialist Republic of California that taxes you to death because you get a bigger deduction. Not that that’s a good reason to live there, but

Andrew Baker 44:34
I feel so much better now.

Jason Hartman 44:36
Yeah. Didn’t they make you feel better? I just wanted to cheer you up.

Andrew Baker 44:39
Yeah. Thanks, boy. Great. Now, let me get my checkbook out.

Jason Hartman 44:43
Yeah, that’s right. Right. It’s it’s just not as bad as you think because the government is there to be your partner through good times and bad it’s like a marriage right?

Andrew Baker 44:53
Through Glade is funny because you know, the thing I found with the, you know, the properties I had is just, it’s really a three legged stool. You have to have a good deal what you bought, you have to have a good tenant, that’s going to pay the bill. And you’re going to have to have somebody good that can manage it. And MIT, maybe that’s you, maybe that’s a property manager. But, you know, you have to realize that you also have to manage your property manager. So, you know, and hopefully, if you get a good one, that job is less intense. But I have really seen a turnaround in certain markets that I’ve changed property management companies where now I’m getting, you know, 20% more in rent, I’m getting a better quality tenant. And, you know, we’re partnered together, whereas I think some property management companies, and you’ve mentioned this on previous shows, the incentives are so skewed, that they have an incentive to do a bad job. If they get a bad tenant. You know, they get a big rent, you know, they get a portion of the rehab, you know, and they get a big lease up there, right.

Jason Hartman 45:56
Brand new lease out of alignment. A lot of times that’s the problem. Yeah. Sometimes these lease fees are more than they’ll collect in the entire year in their, in their, you know, percentage commission for managing the property. So this is why we have talked extensively about self management, it’s something that’s definitely worth considering, like I said before, if you have a good property manager, just leave it alone, you got a good one, but some of them, you know, they’re good for a while, and then maybe they’re bad later, or vice versa, you know, and you just get rid of them and try it. Just try self management. And you know, but don’t do it without an education. Okay, got to listen to my episodes where I’ve talked about it and learn about it. And you’ve got to have some experience I would not do it as a new investor, a new investor should not do self management. Although that’s all I ever did. I mean, when I bought my first property when I was 20 years old, I self managed and you know, with nationwide investing when you’re remote and you’re not near the property, You definitely need a an agent or property manager to do the lease up for you in the transition between tenants, but you don’t necessarily need them to collect the rent every month, you know, you can self manage that part of it pretty easily.

Andrew Baker 47:13
Yeah, the self management thing I’ve never quite wrapped my head around. I mean, I think it’s a good idea if you could give it a shot. And if you can find the, you know, the magic Mojo to make it happen. And I think what’s the benefit of it is that, you know, the tenant is less likely to call the landlord with these chronic, constant nagging, because it’s, you know, like someone constantly complaining to their boss or something, it’s gonna eventually look bad on you, but if there’s an intermediary between you and the owner, you’re gonna you’re gonna you’re gonna everything this light bulb burnt out, you know, that type of thing, I think is the strongest argument for self management. I think with me, I just don’t have enough time. I you know, And I think the Jason Hartman family style of doing everything yourself is admirable. But I don’t know that I would be the best property manager, you know, and I think you know, I’m better at dealing with my business and getting that to be more efficient than trying to reinvent the wheel remotely. And so I think for certain people, you know, maybe you’re retired, maybe you have more free time, or, you know, or maybe you’re just more of a hands on person and you need to have that satisfaction. I don’t know, what are your thoughts on that? I totally get it. But

Jason Hartman 48:34
I wanna, I wanna, I want to say something to you with that. Okay. That was my thinking, too. Okay. And it was the thinking of Fernando, who’s been on the podcast many times and many of you were at our meet the Masters a couple years ago, when the jaws dropped of everybody in the room when Fernando, who has 70 units said that he’s got I think, he said like, 25 of them are self managed and I was interviewing him on stage and, and he said that, you know, we were talking about how much time it takes to deal with the different properties, how do you manage a portfolio that large etc, etc. And he said the self manage properties take less time I was there than I probably manager. Were there. Yeah.

Andrew Baker 49:18
Okay. Yeah. And he ran the numbers.

Jason Hartman 49:20
The room got really quiet for a moment when he said that, and I think the property managers in the room were a little upset about it. Didn’t want him to say that. But But you know, that’s the look at folks. Think about this in any area of your life. Okay. There are things that it makes sense to delegate and things that are just better to do yourself sometimes. And sometimes having a intermediary a third party in there, just slows the whole process down, makes it more expensive and less efficient. And it puts things out of alignment. Okay. You know, They’re there. They’re older and I hate to make this an age thing. Okay. But, you know, look, it’s kind of a common stereotype, okay? Sometimes I’ll go into an office of a, you know, very seasoned executive in an older person who’s, you know, already made it many times over in their career, and they’re, they’re a big shot. And there’s, there’s no computer on their desk. Like, really? In 2017, you don’t have a computer on your desk, and I’ll ask about it as Oh, no, I have a secretary. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? Like, seriously? That’s just a ridiculous mentality to me. Isn’t that Warren Buffett? Doesn’t he do that? I think that’s that’s something wouldn’t surprise me. But he also doesn’t pay a secretary enough because she has a higher tax rate than him apparently, which is not actually true. People have debunked that myth. Many times. It’s more because Warren Buffett is cheating

Andrew Baker 50:59
you He’s not cheating, actually. But he’s just using the loopholes. You know, you know, Warren Buffett just left wing hypocrite, okay, but but I like his investing philosophy of value. I mean, I love Warren Buffett in some ways, even though I’m giving him a hard time here, the value investing philosophy is a good one. And it’s my philosophy, I just do it with a real estate with income properties. So I agree with that, you know, it’s just easier to do a lot of stuff yourself, you know, yeah, when he talks about how, you know, money managers just take most of the profit. And, you know, a lot of times these index funds if you just invested in the index fund, and you didn’t have the, you know, the, the monkeys throwing darts at the, at the newspaper trying to pick stocks, you do much better just if you invested in an index fund, because, you know, they have, you know, if you pick a money manager, they take one, two, sometimes even 2%, whereas if you’re picking an index fund, they take a fraction of 1% but I think the problem is, is that, like you said, you just don’t have as much control. And to me, I think why I had such hesitation for such a long time invested in the stock market is like, I don’t feel like I really own anything. I mean, maybe I do I own like a piece of paper or some small, I own this small part of a company, maybe, and I’ve no say over anything. And, you know, and so thinking about just owning a house, you have a lot of say over what you want to do, I have say over what I want the flooring to look like. And you know, you know, and sometimes the property managers might say, Hey, this is a bad idea. I wouldn’t do this. And you can hear they’re here in the mouth and say, Man, I think you’re wrong. I don’t want to pay you to replace the carpet every year. So I’m going to go this direction instead. And try it out on one of your properties and then make a value decision for the next thing but with your friend talking about earlier, the question about what would you do differently in the last 10 you know, if you knew in the 10 years, I think the mistakes I make I’m glad I made them. I mean, some of them, you know, yeah, I guess it could have worked out better. But

Jason Hartman 53:05
yeah, I’m glad but but I really look back Yeah.

Andrew Baker 53:08
More assets I accumulate those smaller decisions or smaller mistakes I made in the past would be much more magnified if I hadn’t learned that lesson in the future when I’m dealing with more money. So I don’t very good way to think very good way to think. Yeah, I agree. So yeah, that’s, you know, like, I remember when I was younger, I collected baseball cards when I was in elementary school, and I think I’m so thankful I wasted money in that direction. You know, or, you know, in the Beanie Baby type. I didn’t do that. But I’m saying that type of mentality of those fads because getting wrapped up in that type of thing and spending all that money in that way. If I do that, when I’m in elementary school, well, what are we talking about here? A couple hundred dollars, if I’m doing that as an adult, and there’s a lot of adults that invested in baseball cards in the 90s or whatever, think about how much more of an impact it made on their finances. You know, I spend 50% of my money when I’m you know, making $100 a month versus, you know, maybe more money you know, the ticket number obviously, the lesson was learned at a much cheaper price.

Jason Hartman 54:22
And it was also learned at a time that the lesson couldn’t sink your ship. So you know this also that’s for some reason you made me think of dating when I was listening to you talk about this you know, when you’re young as long as you don’t do anything that will be a permanent mistake. You know, there’s there’s always this you know, single guys always say this, why do these women like these losers women always like losers? Well, they like the bad boy right? You know, the James Dean bad boy type, right? That there’s a certain traction right? And, you know, look at your daughter can afford to go out with that guy when she’s young as long as she doesn’t make a big permanent mistake, right, like marriage or pregnant Yeah, but you know, you got to learn some things and have some experiences and do it when it can’t ruin your life, you know, and

Andrew Baker 55:09
I think that’s a great point. And there’s a philosophy guy named Sam Harris, who is kind of a complete different end of the spectrum for me, he’s this atheist, you know, philosopher, and kind of, kind of looks at the world differently than I do. But I respect him because of his thoughtfulness when he approaches stuff. And he talked about how the decisions of life most decisions are not permanent. And I think when you’re younger, you approach things thinking, like, Oh my gosh, this is gonna have such a ramification in the future. When you because you’re looking at the past. And really, most of life decisions are reversible or aren’t as big of a decision in terms of you try to get out of it than you think if you get a bad if you buy a bad house and you know, or whatever. Maybe that’ll have a bigger impact on your you know, On your portfolio, but you know, you can sell it, you could, you know, fix the problem, you can wait it out. And so I thought that was real interesting that a lot of times the hesitation and like you were saying the hurdles are yourself. And really, I think my biggest thing is that I didn’t take more risks. I was too conservative, and I think you kind of echoed that same sentiment. So,

Jason Hartman 56:26
you know, because I think it’s better to make a decision and be wrong than to be right. Never making the decision. Right. So yeah, right, right. Right. Better to do something imperfectly than nothing flawlessly, you know, the people, the people that get on in the world and the people that become the biggest successes, you just notice that over time, are the people that fail fast fail forward, but they’re not afraid to fail. They, you know, they cultivate what I call and I coined this term, so far as I know, rational recklessness, and, you know, I teach this Because I need to learn it myself. I’m pretty conservative. And I find that my being conservative really hurts me in a lot of ways. I need to just be a little more reckless and I’m, I’m just not that way by nature. And so when I say cultivate rational recklessness, the reason I’m saying it is because I need to learn it. And there’s a great book I had him on the show. His real name is Mark Ford, but his pen name is Michael Masterson. And he wrote a book called ready fire aim. It’s phenomenal. read that book. Ready fire aim. It’s, you know, great book and and watch the movie with Jim Carrey. Yes, man. And that’s really about the same thing, you know, cultivate rational recklessness. I just find that the deals I sit on and think about and agonize over the wording in the contract. It would have been better if I just did the frickin beyond you know, got a little reckless some You know, the deal would have just been better.

Andrew Baker 58:02
Well, it’s funny when you look when you look at the deals you did in the past I think you scrutinize that like with me, I’m scrutinizing the the ratios, and the prices and all that stuff. And I am looking at at in today’s dollars, and you go back and you’re like, well, geez, if I had bought anything in 2003, if I bought one of the worst deals ever, I mean, I’d be doing great. People would be saying, Wow, you’re the smartest, you know, to exploit this

Jason Hartman 58:29
guy in the room.

Andrew Baker 58:31
I mean, doing something that might be a couple degrees off, and not in your favor, quickly that gap gets filled in by, you know, time. And, you know, so I think that’s what I sort of learned. And I think another thing too, is just not getting a cheap haircut. You know, I don’t want a cheap haircut and buying something that might be the best what what does that mean? What do you what do you mean when you say that? Yeah, so I use that as kind of Have a cheeky way of saying that like trying to get the best price for something is not going to always benefit you. So, you know, if I go try to find the cheapest way to get a haircut, it’s probably not going to work out in my favor. You know, you probably want to spend a little bit more and get something that will, you know, obviously benefit you. It’s

Jason Hartman 59:20
It’s funny you say that because I just did that myself, you know, ever since I got my haircut. No, no, no. Well, I cut my hair a little bit one time. That didn’t work out too well. But, uh, I ever since I in when I lived in Newport Beach, you know, in Orange County, I had an expensive haircut place and I actually took you there one time. And yeah, and and I used to go and pay, you know, 3540 bucks for a haircut right. And then when I moved to Arizona, I didn’t have any place. So I went to I started going to Great Clips and I loved it because that app I could just get my $13 haircut. It was great. But I actually when I got back from Europe, I needed another haircut I was you know going for like a month. I went online and I found the best place supposedly in Las Vegas. And I went to it right the number one rated like salon by Elle Magazine, and I went there and I paid 40 bucks for a haircut and you know, it really was better. So, yeah,

Andrew Baker 1:00:18
you know, yeah, getting a $20 haircut is different than getting a $7 haircut. I guess that’s, you know, the, maybe the point. But, but yeah, you know, one of the places that maybe the numbers were better for where I bought and, you know, paying maybe 30% more for a nicer house kind of seemed to me out of, you know, out of sorts because of just how much more money that was going to tie up. But you think about those jewels that are in your portfolio of either homes or what and the things you usually overpaid a tiny bit for, I think ended up kind of being your more favored assets being the things that you know, you’re more proud of and you You know, sometimes, you know, the cheaper deals do make more sense. But, you know, I hear you talking about,

Jason Hartman 1:01:08
like, when you started investing with us, when was the first year you bought from us like was that 2009 or 2008?

Andrew Baker 1:01:15
It was 2009 or 10. I looked in 2008 actually to buy a place with you guys. And I, you know, we were friends for a couple years before I ended up. And I’ve always, you know, before I met you, I was very interested in that, but, you know, by the time buying property became accessible to me after college, it was 2006 you know, 2007 So, by the time I came to the market to buy something, I just threw my hands up and said, heck, no. And you know, I had friends where all their parents chipped in and four people bought a house together at the height of the market condo in Costa Mesa. Yeah, basically, and just the whole thing imploded, and I had friends that wanted to have me going on deals with them and I just said, I’m This is amazing. And you know, and then right when the bubble was starting to pop, I was looking at places and the prices just kept going lower and lower and lower. So I think the first place I bought was in you know, you bought a Indianapolis

Jason Hartman 1:02:11
Yeah, yeah. And so so you were buying initially you were buying like Class C properties. You were buying the cheap stuff from us. And then yeah, you’ve upgraded your, your you’re buying more Class A type stuff now. Right?

Andrew Baker 1:02:24
Yeah. So when I first started, you know, I think, I think some of the deals that I bought, were based more on price than on quality. And so, you know, I, a lot of these neighborhoods that I bought in were, everything was built at the height of the market. So anyone who bought in that neighborhood bought at a bad time. So the whole entire neighborhood was on fire, metaphorically speaking, in terms of bailing out so some of these neighborhoods didn’t do as well as others. So some of them managed to recover and others you know, basically failed. So, two of the places I bought there were more in the BCS zone. And you know, I had to, and and those do well, I mean, they do are right, but the ones I’m more proud of are the ones that paid a little bit more for that were in the nicer area, you know, a newer home building track, not every place went underwater, and they were all built in like 2000 you know, like, I think 2004 so there were some people that didn’t get caught up in you know, walking away. But um, but yeah, they, they’ve done, they’ve done great and I’ve noticed recently that the rent values have gone up dramatically and I and at first I attributed this to having good management and picking good people. But I’ve noticed that some of the newer homes that I’ve leased up, Kenny more than the ones that for the tenants that have been in there for a couple of years, I mean, I’m getting a couple 100 $150 more maybe 10% more in rent, so I have noticed as price They’re become less affordable. The rents have just gotten so much stronger. I don’t know if you’re seeing that. But in certain market rents are definitely stronger. But Drew, the rents are not keeping up with the prices. It always goes that way. It’s always the prices lead and the rents follow and a couple years from to catch up, Drew, you know what we got to go on for an hour and five minutes now, this episode is getting way too long. So I gotta just

Jason Hartman 1:04:25
have you back. Can you remember where we are? You want to make a final point. Let’s wrap it up.

Andrew Baker 1:04:29
I’ll let y’all like I would leave your listeners to rest for here. So we’ll, we’ll come back to the table. Maybe in a couple of weeks or so.

Jason Hartman 1:04:37
Good deal, good deal. Hey, everybody, go to Jason And click on the events section and join us for our upcoming meet the Masters event we have never had ever and I think this is like our 19th meet the Masters now. We used to do it twice a year now we only do it once a year. We have never had such strong ticket sales. So early. Because one of the reasons that we got some phenomenal early bird pricing so Jason Hartman calm in the event section, take advantage of the early bird pricing on meet the masters of income property our big event and this will be our biggest ever it’s a beautiful property in La Jolla, California San Diego area in January Get your tickets now so you can save on the price and this is going to be the biggest and best meet the Masters we’ve ever had. We have some paid speakers really good paid speakers this time as well as our teams and property management people flying in from around the country as well. So

Andrew Baker 1:05:39
yeah, it’s a great event I I love going to them when I get a chance. Just the ability to network and meet some of your vendors meet some of the people and shake their hand that you’re doing business with. Definitely gives you more in the long run and and and there’s people that I’ve had a chance to own and other ones In the same markets that I do, where we can kind of compare notes and talk about what we’ve learned and putting a price on that. I mean, you really can because it’s definitely been helpful.

Jason Hartman 1:06:10
Good stuff. Yeah. No, thank you drew. And the other thing is meeting our clients and hearing their experiences, the good, the bad, and the ugly, you know, sitting sitting at lunch and, and talking to our clients who’ve been doing it a while, you know, learning from them sharing experiences, that’s just really, really helpful. That’s why we do live events. We don’t just have a podcast, you know, we, we do many live events, and this is our biggest one. So meet the masters of income property in January early bird pricing, Jason Click on events and get your tickets today. Drew, thanks again for joining me and talking about all these random topics. And we will be back and have you back on the show in the future.

Andrew Baker 1:06:51
My wife’s tired of hearing about this. I got it. I got a bed somewhere.

Jason Hartman 1:06:56
Good stuff.

Thanks for joining us and happy investing. to you and to all our listeners. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website heart and Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice of any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

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