In this episode, Jason Hartman describes the sad state of retirement savings in the USA and explains that retirement saving recommendations overlook inflation’s impact. The second part of the show is a client case study with Curt Moe. He shares why he started looking into real estate, explains the importance of overcoming limiting beliefs, and expresses how cash flow has helped him in his life.
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multimillionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in 1000s of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day, you really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 0:52
Welcome to Episode 1673 1673. Thank you for joining me today. So the nagging question is how much have you put away for retirement? Actually, given our brilliant listeners, I bet this is not a big worry for you. But if we have massive inflation, which finally, as Jason Hartman has been saying, for quite a while, it seems like the popular consensus is that that is coming our way. Now, I guess last year, was the straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back, right? When you print 20 to 35% of all dollars ever created? Ever. In one year, people are starting to believe there might be a problem. Hashtag hungry, hashtag why Mar Germany, hashtag Zimbabwe? Hashtag Argentina hashtag Venezuela? Why do you put hashtags in front of them? I don’t know. It’s just kind of cute. Go on Twitter and search those hashtags. You’ll see it. But the question is, that’s a moving target. Now, the numbers I am about to share with you, ladies and gentlemen, do not mean cash. Well, I don’t think they mean cash. The sources I’m getting them from, don’t say, but I just think they mean available wealth that is convertible to cash in a reasonable amount of time. So I would include equity in real estate. But remember that equity is a moving measuring stick to because it becomes debased by inflation. And, of course, it becomes potentially at risk with market cycles. And that’s why you will engage in the Hartman, equity stripping refi till you die strategy. Because we have talked about that for so many years now. And you’re doing it, you’re doing it, you’re taking advantage of it. Okay. So let’s look at some numbers. So I found a chart from one of these financial planning outfits. And it talked about, you know, the amount of money people should save based on their age, and they’re doing it as a multiplier of income.
Now, the methodology, you know, I don’t know how they arrived at this, but I would assume this is somewhat, and I think it’s a reasonable assumption, that it’s somewhat industry standard, if you will. So by age 31, time, your income by age 43 times your income 55 times your income 67 times your income 79 times your income. So you see that this is not any kind of a one for one ratio here, right, but by at 11 times your income, and based on the typical income of they’re saying about, you know, household median incomes about 61,000. So, if you’re 30, you got 60. Well, 62,000 in the bank, hopefully, or saved in one way or another, your 40 180 886,000 if you’re 50 310,000, if you’re 60 $434,000 if you’re 70 $557,000 if you’re at $681,000. But I don’t believe this really counts for the ravages of inflation, which is on our doorstep, I would say on the doorstep, waiting outside waiting to come in. And Rob our house, our house of wealth will be robbed by the burglar casing the joint. That’s that’s inflation right So, what is the actuality? Right? what is reality? That’s the recommendation. Okay. But what’s the reality? Here’s where we need to get really, really concerned. Why do we need to be concerned? Well, number one, if you’re like me, you don’t want to live in a banana republic. No, that’s not the store, which by the way, I highly recommend I do shop there myself, check out the Lux touch t shirts. They’re the best. And they’re not expensive either. So I recommend, boy, how much did Banana Republic just make off that free advertising I just gave them. You know, I hope they send me a gift card, because I’ve earned. Okay, anyway. So by age 40, to 49, right in that 10 year span. So this could be essentially an almost 50 year old 41% of those people have less than $50,000.
Now, some have more, but I’m going to go with the downside. The banana republic, by the way, is obviously a country where you have a small number of people who are very rich, and the masses who are very poor, and there’s no middle class, that’s a banana republic, the US, as I’ve been saying, for 20 years is quickly becoming a banana republic. And California specifically, is really becoming a banana republic much more quickly than many other states. But I like a big middle class, I don’t like a banana republic, look, even if I’m rich, I don’t want to live in a banana republic, because it’s not pleasant. I want my fellow citizens to be doing well and enjoying a nice lifestyle. And, you know, having that big stability of a big middle class, that’s a much better world to live in. I mean, the old saying, right, even if you win the rat race, you’re still a rat. Well, particularly true in banana republic countries. Now that, you know, that old saying really refers to people who are still on the treadmill and haven’t created wealth through investments following our plan. These are people that are on the treadmill, and they earn money, and then they spend it all and they buy expensive toys, and those are depreciating assets and luck. You can buy those depreciating assets if you want, but only after you have other assets that will pay for them for you. Right? That’s the thing. Don’t become debt laden with the appearances of wealth without having the real wealth to back it up. That’s the key. Okay, so 41% of the country from age 40 to 49 years old, has less than $50,000. Okay, ages 50 to 59 37% of the country has less than $50,000. Now compare that to the recommendation. So the 40 year old should have $186,000, the 50 year old should have 310,041%. You know, granted, I’m looking at two different charts.
So they, uh, you’re either way, irrelevant, right? But 41% has less than 50 grand. And then when you go to the next decade, if you’re 60, you should have $434,000. Well, guess what? 37% have less than 50,016% in that same cohort has only 50 to $99,000. Okay, let’s go to the 60 year old 69, cohort 28% less than $50,000. Wow, that’s really, really sad. And so let’s look at the 70 number. Nine times income. $557,000 is the recommendation. And 28% have less than 50,000. Now remember that less than number could mean they have $1,000. It just has less than 50,000. It doesn’t say how much less? Right? That’s the lowest segment in this chart I’m looking at. So folks, things are dire. For many, many people. The best way to help the poor is don’t be one of them. And you know that sounds like a sarcastic callous thing to say but it’s actually quite true. Because these people, the vast majority of people will be putting a huge burden on the system. And some just won’t get aid because our government is obviously broke or Government is printing fake paper in mass 20 to 35% of all dollars ever created created in the last year. Remember, the two primary value drivers for anything according to yours truly scarcity and utility, scarcity and utility, if something is not scarce, it becomes less valuable. And the more abundant It is, in many cases, especially with money, or currency, the proper word is currency, not money, the less utility it has, because fewer people think it’s valuable if there’s so much of it. Right. And I’m not saying so much of it in a good way, I’m saying in a debased way, meaning the governments and the central banks have debased it by creating such an abundance of it.
This is not abundance in a good way, this is abundance in a inflationary way. So there you go, something to think about, okay, we’ve got a nother client case study today. And that is our note, here’s the important thing about this one, this is a good case study. Here’s why I particularly like the client case study you’re about to hear. I like it. Because he’s not doing it in some big way. He’s not saying hey, I want to I want to go get rich and make, you know, $10 million. He’s just doing it at us in a very sort of basic, incremental way, you know, listened to the podcast for nine years, bought his first property. And then a couple years later, bought another property. And now is buying another one. I think he’s closed on that one now. So I think three properties in right, not a big deal. This is not a pie in the sky story. This is a very, very realistic story. But you see how after a job layoff that could happen to any of us? Well, wouldn’t happen to me. I mean, sort of could slowly right. I remember I was with my girlfriend at the time, Lynn and her father, Jerry, she was saying something like I was talking about how bad the real estate market was. It was really tough cycle. And I was in traditional real estate way back in the day. You know, her father, very wealthy guy had a big company. She said, Well, you know, we were talking about all the job layoffs, right? And she said, Well, Jason, you can’t get laid off. And her father says, Well, he gets laid off one at a time. You know, he was right. Meaning that there’s just not that many real estate transactions going on. So you’re basically getting laid off one at a time, or you take a listing on a house and it doesn’t sell. And it’s on the market for a year, which I experienced a few times, property just won’t sell, the seller won’t get realistic about the price. And the buyers just that they vote, they say that we’re not paying, sorry.
So that’s how you get laid off. And if you’re self employed, you do get laid off. Anybody can get laid off, right? Everybody has a boss, remember that? So when you have that, and you just have to one or two properties that provides a security blanket for you doesn’t have to be a big thing. Doesn’t have to be a big giant portfolio doesn’t have to be a dozen, two dozen, three dozen houses, right. I mean, some of our clients have been on the show, you know, they got dozens and dozens of properties, right? You’ve heard those case studies. The thing I like about this one is this is just a super duper realistic, anybody could do it case study. So it’s Curtis, Mo. And here he is. It’s my pleasure to welcome Kurt Mo. today. He is a client and this is a client case study and his is special in a lot of ways. I think you’ll like it. Kurt, welcome. How you doing?
Curt Moe 14:01
I’m doing great. Thanks for having me, Jason. Yeah, happy to talk about real estate and whatever else. It’s good to have you on. And
Jason Hartman 14:07
you know, we talk a lot. We’re messaging back and forth frequently. I guess. You know, I first came to know you about three, maybe four years ago, I think I remember when you messaged me. And you said something that was really cool. Do you remember what you said when you introduced yourself?
Curt Moe 14:25
I don’t I
Jason Hartman 14:27
remind you remind you that you said hey, Jason, my name is Kurt Mo. I’ve been listening to your podcast for nine years. And I finally bought a property. And I’ve been working with Sarah and that’s what you said.
Curt Moe 14:42
Jason Hartman 14:44
Yeah, that was awesome. I remember it and it just makes me think, you know, some people, you know, they hear the podcast, they find us on YouTube, whatever. And they jump right in and do stuff in some you know, they got to warm up to it for a while. So tell us about your story and where you first started. listening to this show, I think it was when you were serving in Iraq. And by the way, thank you for your service. Tell us about that.
Curt Moe 15:06
Yeah. So I, you know, I went to Iraq and Oh, 607. And yeah, had a lot of downtime. And that was also like, you have time to kind of think about what what I want to do next with my life. And I had been working in coffee shops for like seven years. And during that time, I was like, I’m done with this. But I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And I just started going through the whole Kiyosaki library. And I think I read at his at that time, all of the rich dad books, and then started, you know, podcasts were brand new thing, and I stumbled upon yours. And after reading his books, and listen to your podcasts, and some others, I knew, like, hey, I want to get into real estate. But at that time, and when I came back, I had quite a bit of consumer debt and some student loan debt, and some core beliefs that I had to address also. So you know, that was, Oh, 607. And then, you know, I sent you that first message in like, 2017, when I bought the first house in Memphis, that was really just, you know, in that 10 year period, it’s, it’s, it’s a struggle, a mental struggle of wanting to invest in real estate so badly, but having to address that debt first. And I didn’t pay off the whole debt before I got the house. But I got it down to a point where my monthly payments were enough that I could save more, where everything didn’t have to go to the debt payment,
Jason Hartman 16:18
which debt Are you referring to?
Curt Moe 16:21
I had credit card debt, I had some student loans and stuff.
Jason Hartman 16:24
So tell us about those core beliefs that you had to change and why that was impactful?
Curt Moe 16:29
Sure, sure. I had a pretty rough, young childhood, and just a lot of ingrained stuff in there that maybe I wasn’t deserving of wealth, or I wasn’t deserving of, you know, a quality life. And that’s something I’m very open with it about people these days. But it’s something that you know, you’re saving, and you’re saving, and you want to you have this goal you want to get in real estate, but you’re always coming up against these beliefs that in your core says you can’t do this or you aren’t, you know, worthy enough to do this. So that’s, you know, that’s just another piece of the pie that I had to get through. And just like a lot of people say, once you get that first property, it’s like, Okay, I’m ready to do 10 more.
Jason Hartman 17:07
Yeah, yeah. Well, that that’s great. And then, you know, just fast forward a little bit. So well, first of all, maybe we’ll talk about these beliefs a little bit. But I want I want to make sure, Kurt, that you talk about that other message, you left me that I will never forget, where you were changing jobs and relocating, and how, you know, just having two properties, no big deal, not a giant portfolio, not 50 properties, how it really, really, I guess we’re going into it now. But we’ll get back.
Curt Moe 17:38
to backup Just a minute, I got the first house in Memphis. And then shortly after I moved down to Tennessee, and you know, I just said, Why don’t I move to where, you know, it’s a great market. And I’ll really start to learn things and and understand Memphis. But one thing that really opened my eyes, there was, I got a different job in Memphis, but I ironically got hired at the exact same rate I was making in Minneapolis, high tax Minnesota, went down to Memphis, no state income tax, and just from that move, again, making the same amount in my salary, I was still able to net around $500 a month, just from the no state income tax. And that really opened my eyes to what the lower taxes can do. And now, interestingly, you’re living in Puerto Rico that has the best tax deal on planet Earth. Yeah,
Jason Hartman 18:28
we’re an American citizen. If you’re not American, you can do all kinds of stuff. But Americans are kind of trapped, because the IRS taxes you worldwide, except Puerto Rico, they give you a big exemption. So congratulations on that. But just to also explain you’re an IT professional, right. So you enter information technology, you know, saving six grand a year on taxes was significant, because in a couple years, you can add another property your portfolio, right?
Curt Moe 18:56
Absolutely, absolutely. It was it was incredible, especially it really, the numbers really helped. I mean, I would have preferred more money when I moved to Memphis, but just that the fact that I was getting the same amount and pay, but my my checks were like, or at least every month was like 400 extra dollars or 500.
Jason Hartman 19:11
Your cost of
Curt Moe 19:12
living wasn’t right that to that to that too, but to the message that when when all this pandemic started, I was actually in the middle of switching jobs, and was kind of nervous about things. But I remember the message and I said, maybe not a confidence, but I did have a fear and anxiety. And I just said just from having these two houses, you know, plus the income and savings that I have, you know, I know I’m feeling a lot better and a lot less anxious, and I don’t have to worry about as much as I would need to if I didn’t have this passive income coming in. Even if it got to the point where I didn’t it was a really weird transition because my new job really delayed on bringing me on board where I was taking just a week off between jobs, and it ended up being five weeks because they didn’t know what to do. As coding was starting,
Jason Hartman 20:01
so you know, switching you were switching as the COVID thing was becoming a big deal. Yeah. And so they delayed your hiring. Yeah, that’s when having the two rental properties made you feel more secure because he had the income from them, right?
Curt Moe 20:14
Yep. Because I thought at any day, companies were starting to downsize already. This was March, April. And I thought any day, they’re just gonna say, Hey, we need to downsize also, and we’re not bringing on new people, or we’re going to a hiring freeze, I was convinced that was going to happen until that laptop arrived in the mail for me to start working for him.
Jason Hartman 20:32
And now you’ve got a third property underway. Right?
Curt Moe 20:34
closing Thursday. Yeah. Okay, I’m gonna fly back to Charlotte, because unfortunately, the government doesn’t let you wire money electronically, with some banks. So I gotta, I gotta fly to Charlotte close, and then I’ll fly back.
Jason Hartman 20:46
Cool. So basically, you’ve you’ve done a property per year, right?
Curt Moe 20:50
Just about I mean, it’s been, I’ve really had to bootstrap, you know, all my savings, and you know, cash flow, it’s all going into to the next down payment. But I think I’m at a point now with this third one, especially where I can really accelerate it. And yeah, and that’s just the power of compounding, you know, adding one property and then the next and as long as you you know, you don’t have to live like a popper. But as long as you keep rolling your profits into the next down payment, you know, you can really accelerate it. And of course, like I said, after the first property you want 10 immediately, but, you know, part of the learning process is, you know, the patience, you have to exercise, you know, to get to the next one in the next year.
Jason Hartman 21:27
This is definitely an addictive hobby being a real estate.
Curt Moe 21:31
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Good, good
Jason Hartman 21:33
stuff. You talked about those limiting beliefs. Do you want to circle back to that at all? Because I think that’s really important for a lot of people. And it’s amazing, you know, it’s this difference between context and content, right? For example, you know, fish, they live in water? Do they notice the water? Well, we don’t know, because we can’t read their minds, right, but probably not. You know, we live in air, do we notice the air? We don’t really think about it too much, unless really bad, right? But everything in our lives is generated out of this belief system we have. And that’s why it’s so incredibly important to manage one’s belief system, isn’t it?
Curt Moe 22:15
Absolutely, absolutely. And they really, you know, you can have unlimited beliefs, and you can have limiting beliefs. And I definitely had limiting beliefs. And I, you know, it came to a point where, you know, I just accepted my past and really dove into those. And it’s, it’s the thing where I’ve read and read the prosperity books, and the wealth books, and the finance books and the Tony Robbins, but until you really, you know, look at yourself, and confront those beliefs. And, you know, I recommend if they’re bad enough, see a therapist, I’ve done that. And I still do that. And it’s extremely helpful for me.
Jason Hartman 22:49
But most therapists, though, aren’t going to be prosperity conscious, though, are they?
Curt Moe 22:54
No, no. But if you can address like beliefs of like, shame, and guilt that you may carry from your childhood, where that was the repeated message that he received? I mean, absolutely. It’s going to carry over into other things a life, you change it in one area, and then then it’s your diet and your health and your exercise. That’s, you know, it’s lifted also.
Jason Hartman 23:15
Right, right. Well, you’re definitely a health conscious guy, I’m sure. I mean, I met you when you came out to our meet the Masters in 2019. Right. Ron Paul, you’re Newport Beach, California. And the funniest thing. You sent me a message right before the event we haven’t met yet. But it was a another, you send some funny messages I love and this message was funny. He said, Hey, Jason, let me know if you need any help with the event. You know, I’d be happy to work security. Thank God, if I need security, I’m in trouble. But if you’re not watching this on video, Kurt is a big buff dude. So he could handle security for sure.
Curt Moe 23:59
I wasn’t always I wasn’t always Yes, I was upwards of 250.
Jason Hartman 24:04
But But you know, what applies with health and weight? And with prosperity and with all these things, doesn’t it? You know, we
Curt Moe 24:11
just relationships? Absolutely.
Jason Hartman 24:13
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, they say the most important conversation any of us will ever have is the conversation we have with ourselves. And we’re just talking to ourselves all the time all day long. Are we Yeah, yeah. So share with how the changing these belief systems just anymore on that, you know, did you change the conversation with yourself? What was the only one what’s the new one?
Curt Moe 24:37
Oh, definitely. Definitely. I mean, the old one, you know, one of the messages I got growing up was you know, everything I touch breaks that was a troublemaker you know, I got into trouble all the time. And a lot of things broke, you know, when I
Jason Hartman 24:50
so it wasn’t it wasn’t unproven.
Curt Moe 24:52
No, it wasn’t untrue. But then when you hear that repeatedly, it gets ingrained in you and I told told my sister The other day I said you I carried a lot of pain for a long time. And I think, you know, a lot of people who knew me knew, but I’m just I’m just very open to sharing these things now, especially during these COVID times, because I think a lot of people are hurting and they need, they need that stigma removed of, you know, things like depression and things like mental health that we’re human, we go through this stuff. Yeah, you know, if you know that someone else has gone through that, and you’re going through it and trying to hide it or or just keep it in or you’re, you’re scared to even admit that you have it here in one person say that that’s what changed my life A long time ago.
Jason Hartman 25:33
It’s interesting that you say that, because I read a post on social media this morning. That circles right back to what you’re saying. It said something to the effect that suicide is not a selfish act like some people have said that it is right. But it’s the final symptom of a disease known as depression. It’s so sad when that kind of thing happens, right? But it’s true. Everybody goes through these difficult times these rough patches in their lives. You know, it’s just helpful to know that it’s normal. And people go through it. Right.
Curt Moe 26:09
It is and you know, social media does no favor when you have curated, you know, someone takes 100 photos and posts the one that just looks awesome, right? And we’re constantly seeing that, and then you’ll mentally or consciously or unconsciously comparing ourselves to that, you know, I’m a big, big recommender of, you know, getting off Facebook, which I’ve done recently. And you know, anything else that you overall it’s like, when you look at social media is the tangent. It’s look at it as the overall and for me, it was a net negative. over the whole time and years that I used it, it was a net negative, you know, I got I got less out of it than I gained.
Jason Hartman 26:44
Yeah, I’m starting to think the same way. You know, when I’ve been, I don’t know if you’re, we’re still on Facebook together. But I’ve been posting a lot of things since I got restricted. I got put in Facebook Jail for saying, quote, they just want a fair election. Apparently, that was blasphemy, Kurt. And so I’ve been really outspoken lately, and I was thinking, What if they kicked me off? And I’m thinking it might be a blessing. Because that comparison trap is is bad? Well, you know, is it always bad because sometimes the comparison thing makes us strive for more, right? We
Curt Moe 27:22
need to have our heroes and our idols, but I don’t know how to really break it down into words, but there’s that there’s the heroes and idols. But then there’s the I don’t know what social media does to it, it’s, you know, it’s that YOLO life, it’s the, you know, I was in Guatemala recently, and I saw some folks taking a photo and I was like, and I just kind of jokingly walked by them. And I said, you know, you know, guys, life doesn’t wait for Instagram. And the girl immediately replied that pics or it didn’t happen, you know? Well, it did happen. And when I go on vacation, I take photos of like nature and stuff. But what I don’t take photos of is up in my head. And I don’t worry about not posting an ad or something like that, and getting all those likes. So
Jason Hartman 28:03
I think one one way to think about that is, you know, go ahead and take the photo, if you want to take the photo, right? For those of us old enough to remember there was a time in life when we didn’t take photos all the time, because it costs $1 a photo. And if you adjust that for inflation, you know, that’s probably like five bucks today. Okay? Taking photos was expensive, it was something to be used conservatively. But go ahead and take the photo, and then put your phone down and experience it. Take in the beauty of whatever you’re looking at right
Curt Moe 28:34
now. Life is happening, you know, regardless of what’s going on in someone’s state, or someone’s country locked down in regards of lockdowns and stuff, life is still happening and people are still living it. And it’s out there for for anyone.
Jason Hartman 28:47
Yeah, it certainly is. Okay, so these beliefs, do you feel like you overcame them? Or is it something that you always have to just constantly work on and remind yourself of,
Curt Moe 28:59
you know, with other things I’ve gotten, you know, where you make a little progress, and you’re like, Oh, I got this. And I’ve done that with with core beliefs. And, and I think just the the cautious approach and approach I’m taking it is just to assume that it’s something that I’m going to have to work on, at least for a long time. Maybe not lifelong, but it’s important to me enough, and I’ve gotten so much value and I’m just a completely different person from you know, addressing them and working on them that I get value when I when I do really dive into them and things like yoga and meditation. I mean, anytime I do yoga and meditation to start my morning, the day, at least the first half of the day, whatever happens. I’m still super chill. And and it feels great.
Jason Hartman 29:40
Yeah. And in your line of work. There’s a lot of things that go wrong, right? Yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, what’s your plan for your real estate portfolio?
Curt Moe 29:50
I remember doing the I don’t know if you remember the five year plan. I think it was before the 2018 meet the masters or I forget when we did that, but I had the Ric Flair costume When I did mine, but then I think mine then was a property’s within five years. And that was 2017 or 2018. And I know I can still hit that. So I got till 2022. So once we get this next one, I think I can accelerate and maybe refinance the two that I’ve had. And really just kick that into gear. I’m not a huge, like, definitive gold person, but I just keep progressing, you know, and everything I’ve been doing since 2017, is just funneled into the next property.
Jason Hartman 30:27
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So before you picked up the books, and started checking out the podcasts and so forth, why real estate why income property? What brought you into that?
Curt Moe 30:39
I really don’t know. I think anyone listening I was thinking about this as we were getting, you know, as the days were approaching for the for this interview, and I was thinking anyone who has gone down a rabbit trail of podcasts, or maybe they found you from George gammon, or someone else, and they found the Jason Hartman podcast, be thankful that the stars aligned to get to hear or maybe they didn’t, but they’re on you know, listening to some other podcast. And I don’t know why I got into real estate, you know, once I started reading, and it made sense, passive income, this looks nice. You see that Roberts cashflow quadrant, okay, I want to be in this quadrant. In real estate seems to do that. It’s just the rabbit trail, I guess. And if you follow it, and you follow the direction it brings you, I think good things will happen. It’s like listening to podcasts and and just being a YouTube junkie for like George’s channel, a real vision and other stuff like that. You know, if you really make that as part of your life, you can’t not be changed somehow, because of it. It’s impossible not to as long as you’re absorbing it, and you’re not just sleeping, sleepwalking, you know, as you’re listening to the podcast. So I mean, it’s not a great answer. But you know, I think life leaves a little breadcrumbs to trails of positivity, as long as you follow on your like, good things are gonna happen as long as you take some action.
Jason Hartman 31:54
Yeah. And, you know, I guess part of that is not specifically about income property or real estate, but it’s just becoming more financially focused. And some people Kurt might view that his work, right. But other people just think it’s interesting. You know, it’s an interesting thing. I mean, to me, it is at least studying investing and economics and stuff like that. I remember years ago, I took a community college night class with my mom, and I was only in high school, at the time, I was a senior in high school. And I took like, our real estate finance class or something, you know, we met some different people. And you know, I remember meeting this one, like, rich guy, and he talked about how he owned all these, I think bicycle stores. And I recognize the brand, because those stores were all over. And, you know, he had all this real estate and stuff. And I asked my mom, I said, Why is someone like that here? You know, why is someone like that working on investing in working at all? And she said, it’s just interesting. What else? Are you gonna do? You know, be interested in something? You do? Yeah,
Curt Moe 33:07
I had a co worker and a good friend, we were chatting earlier. And he knows I’m flying to close out the property on Thursday. But he’s like, you know, what’s your goal, you know, retire early. And I said, Well retire in the sense that if I want to walk away from a nine to five, I can, but I’ll still keep working on something like I enjoy the the fulfillment and the sense of achievement, you know, that you get from, you know, a day’s work or, you know, saving up to get your next property? I think we need that. Yeah, you know, as everyone knows, or I’m sure everyone’s heard something, you know, if people who don’t do anything after they retire at 65, you know, they’re kind of gone with, you know, they’re off this world and a few years, you really need it
Jason Hartman 33:44
to live you do you got to be engaged. That’s the people who live the longest and the healthiest are engaged in stuff. If you like, financial freedom, you might as well be engaged in the area of finance and investing, right? Any lessons you learned along the way, I’m sure there have been some that you can impart or share with people listening, you know, any technology that you’re using any apps, any tools or resources or anything like that to do better at investing?
Curt Moe 34:14
Yeah, well, I mean, real simple, is stay out of debt. And if you’re in debt, address it immediately
Jason Hartman 34:19
except for mortgage debt, right, except for mortgage debt,
Curt Moe 34:23
off that consumer debt and do what you can do the Dave Dave Ramsey method, the snowball method is what I did. There’s a lot of great calculators out there, where you can see visually, I think one of them is like, snowball calculator calm or something along those lines. And you can see visually the breakdown of when you’re going to pay off each if you pay off this much extra per month. And then once you can just start saving for that first property. You know, I waited a long time almost a decade for that first one, but I mean, that first one has changed my life and the path since then, has also as far as tools a tip of the cat to drew Baker dipped my In self management, with the one house hack I did in Memphis, so I, I use tools like, smart move for my background checks. And then I use. What’s the direct deposit? One? I’m trying to remember now.
Jason Hartman 35:12
Curt Moe 35:13
cozy. Yep. I use cozy for direct deposit.
Jason Hartman 35:15
I’m on the show. Yeah, but your use property tracker, right?
Curt Moe 35:18
property tracker? Yep. Product tracker is great, especially when it comes time like right now to get your schedule, even your tests makes it a lot easier. And yeah, I don’t know, there’s so many so many. You know, that’s one of the other, I guess affirmations I’ve been telling myself lately is there’s the world’s full of trustworthy and safe people. Not all of them are trustworthy and safe. But there’s tons of them, and people who want to help. And I think that’s another belief I had to get over is being comfortable asking for help, you know, asking for assistance on things, not just living in my pride that I can figure it out on my own. There’s groups like, like Jason Hartman, other tools that can make it happen. And you know, along to Drew’s line of self management, that’s easier than it’s ever been. Yeah, you can cut out your property manager. If you feel comfortable. I still use management but I, I self manage that one.
Jason Hartman 36:06
So you self manage one of the you have two now and you’ll have three soon you self manage one of the two, right?
Curt Moe 36:13
Yep. And I’m gonna put the next one under. under management also.
Jason Hartman 36:18
Good, good stuff. And I agree with you, you know that there are most people are good people. You know, most tenants are good tenants to the vast majority of them. There are definitely some scammers and shysters out there, we’ve all been burned by them either at one time or another, maybe multiple times. But I came across a good quote. And I have to credit one of my social media friends, again, some good things out of it. And I took a screenshot of this because I liked the quote so much, it said, the rich get richer, because the poor think every opportunity is a scam. And there are certainly a lot of scams out there. But you got to balance that you got to take some risk, and be willing to try things and sometimes not gonna work and you’re gonna get burned. That’s just reality. It’s just odds, right? It is.
Curt Moe 37:09
And it’s like, I don’t know, if it was the previous episode or two episodes ago, where you said, Look, what the Fed is doing, and what central banks doing is absolutely terrible. But what are we as individuals going to do to change it? So we can do what you always say, which is align ourselves with the most powerful forces? That is no demand?
Jason Hartman 37:27
Yeah, right. Right, these these governments and central banks, they’re not ethical, what they’re doing, right, but we aren’t going to change it. So we might as well just align our interests with theirs, we’re not part of it, we’re not doing it. Okay. It’s not like we’re gonna commit the crime with them. But look, they’re going to do certain things, nobody, but nobody’s gonna stop them. Okay. And we might as well just ride on the coattails of what they do. And that mean grit, get those big, long mortgages, and don’t pay them off, don’t pay them down, let those mortgages make you rich. And I want to make sure you distinguish that because you said pay down your debt. And you don’t mean the good debt. Right. Right.
Curt Moe 38:10
low interest debt, that’s, you know, tied up to a house. Absolutely. That’s the good stuff.
Jason Hartman 38:15
That’s the good stuff. Good. Good deal. Tell us about your military service. And again, thank you. I mean, you were, you were in the action
Curt Moe 38:22
tells me I didn’t kind of I never you know, I was logistics, the MLS for any other military guys is 88 November, you know, we were the core transportation hub for everything going on in Iraq, and you know, come in, things would come in through Kuwait before there, it was a wild time, great experience. And for jobs like mine, you don’t, if you don’t need to go off base, you don’t go off base. So I didn’t see any, you know, action, you know, as we, you know, see in the movies and stuff. But one thing that was really nice anytime you do run into a guy who drove truck, you know, trying to dodge IEDs and suffer an infantry guy, you know, you have a talk with them. And you know, our job, we kind of knew our place, but it’s like, you know, I’m just a logistics guy. But everyone in the military knows that nothing happens until something moves, some type of equipment, people or things move. And that’s a fact.
Jason Hartman 39:13
You know, that’s interesting. That’s a good metaphor for life and investing, isn’t it?
Curt Moe 39:17
It is, it is. Yeah,
Jason Hartman 39:18
yeah. So until you take action, and you know, start buying properties, nothing happens, right? You can learn about it, you can think about it. And that’s all great. get educated. But you can’t do it.
Curt Moe 39:32
You got to do it at some point.
Jason Hartman 39:33
Yeah. You know, you
Curt Moe 39:34
don’t have to wait nine years. But if you do, you know, it’s, like I said, I’m still very happy that I’m on that path. So
Jason Hartman 39:41
Kurt, thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you for your service. And it’s just always great people love when they get to your client case studies from real people like yourself, and I’m just really happy for you. So keep up the good work with your investing and any any final words to wrap it up.
Curt Moe 39:57
I can’t go without tip of the cat to ask. Jackson, who, you know, we were at that the Memphis property tour. I think it was 2017. And, and he told me, he’s like I cashed out my 401k and buy 10 houses and what?
Jason Hartman 40:12
Yeah, and I was on the show talking about that.
Curt Moe 40:14
Yeah, he’s great times. And that kinda is like, okay, I can I have a little bit of my 401k I can do something here. And so he just that little conversation also played a big part in me getting that first house. So yeah, I always appreciate Yeah, that’s awesome. Thanks
Jason Hartman 40:28
so much, Kurt. Really appreciate you being on the show. Thank you very much, and happy investing my friend. Thanks, Jason. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out this shows specific website and our general website heart and Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.
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